Solved Pc shuts down and fans go full blast

[Cheekykid]

Hello everyone. First post here and I must say I am rather touched with how helpful peeps are on this forum. Awesome community.

I experience this problem lately. Mind you it happens when am on windows while doing nothing power intensive.

The screen will go off, I can still hear youtube playing, and after 3-4 seconds I have a complete shut down but with with my fans on full. Then only with hard reset I can reboot.
No minidumps are generated.

My temperatures are fine however I have been using the same PSU for I don't know how long. I do not even remember when I bought it but it is more than 8 years. Probably around 10-14 years. It is a Seasonic 850W which at the time was a premium choice. I think I paid £180 for it. I don't want to buy a new PSU if I can avoid it unless we can be certain this is the problem.

My specs: http://speccy.piriform.com/results/bopNUjHeF0XbTOV1NE2nNET

Thanks a lot folks!

 

[Bruce]

Some things to try;

• Remove BitDefender - it can always be re-installed later
• You are connected to the web via the Mullvad Tunnel, have you tried going via your Realtek adapter?
• D:\ drive SMART values are showing multiple times where the temperature has been exceeded
• Disable XMP mode in BIOS

I would also be removing the GPU and RAM sticks, wiping their mobo slots, mobo contact pins, and circuit boards with a soft bristled brush for good measure.

But your symptoms sounds like over heating to me - what are you using to check the temps?
How often is this happening - every time you use the PC, or just say once a week?
If D:\ drive is the potential cause, you could disconnect that for a few days and see if it helps.

 

[Cheekykid]

XMP mode isn't enabled for my ram. In fact I have it running less than its capability.
D drive disconnected. I took out and reinserted both RAM and GPU.

I use HWinfo for the temps and I don't see something out of the ordinary there.

This issue happens 1-3 times a day at this stage. I am now keeping my tower open to help with ventilation.

Should these measures fail I will then remove bitdefender and mullvad Tunnel. Just trying to narrow it down.

My PSU model is: SS-850KM Active PFC F3

 

[Bruce]

Sounds like a thorough plan.
We should know, either way. within the next couple of days.

 

[phillpower2]

Two problems that I can see there; you have a PSU that is potentially thirteen years old and therefore at least six years out of warranty and you have RAM that is not appropriate for your CPU which means that you cannot enable XMP and at this time the RAM is causing a bottleneck.

Suggest a replacement PSU along the lines of a black label Corsair RM 650W that has the ten year warranty + manually overclocking the RAM to 1.35V and 3200MT/s to get rid of that bottleneck.

 

[Cheekykid]

Two problems that I can see there; you have a PSU that is potentially thirteen years old and therefore at least six years out of warranty and you have RAM that is not appropriate for your CPU which means that you cannot enable XMP and at this time the RAM is causing a bottleneck.

Suggest a replacement PSU along the lines of a black label Corsair RM 650W that has the ten year warranty + manually overclocking the RAM to 1.35V and 3200MT/s to get rid of that bottleneck.

Why is my Ram not appropriate for my cpu? I know it should be running at 3200 as its the max my cpu supports but have intentionally clocked it down for now. If I enable XMP the clock goes to 3600mhz if I recall correctly which my cpu doesn't support. When I bought this ram it specifically said its for Ryzen cpus.

I am holding out the PSU purchase for now and will give it some time first to locate the problem.

 

[Cheekykid]

Ok, I think I found the problem. Just now I noticed that my CPU won't stop running high. I took a look at HWinfo and the temps while idling are 65C+. Surely this has to be a thermal paste issue hence the shut downs. Nothing is overclocked in my system.

 

[phillpower2]

If your RAM was appropriate you would just be able to enable XMP and leave the BIOS to auto adjust the RAM speed to 3200MT/s which is what AMD say the CPU works best and most stable with, because the 3600MT/s RAM is faster than what the CPU can handle you cannot enable XMP and allow the BIOS to do its job so your RAM is not appropriate.

Your PC to do with as you see fit and for our part PCHF has offered you sound advice, you appear to not be taking this advice onboard so I will respectfully withdraw from offering anything further other than to wish you good luck and suggest you get yourself a fire extinguisher for when the PSU goes.

 

[Cheekykid]

If your RAM was appropriate you would just be able to enable XMP and leave the BIOS to auto adjust the RAM speed to 3200MT/s which is what AMD say the CPU works best and most stable with, because the 3600MT/s RAM is faster than what the CPU can handle you cannot enable XMP and allow the BIOS to do its job so your RAM is not appropriate.

Your PC to do with as you see fit and for our part PCHF has offered you sound advice, you appear to not be taking this advice onboard so I will respectfully withdraw from offering anything further other than to wish you good luck and suggest you get yourself a fire extinguisher for when the PSU goes.

I am not sure I follow you, with respect. Should I be taking, without any clarification, whatever anyone tells me? I am not here only to learn but also to understand which sometimes requires follow up questions. You may withdraw if you so choose.

Is setting the ram manually to 3200mhz not equivalent to running it at the same speed via XMP?

 

[phillpower2]

Clarification, I have bucket loads of it, AMD state here up to 3200MT/s which means that if you have XMP enabled the RAM will get auto OCd past what the CPU can handle and the PC will become unstable.

Something to keep in mind for the future, a CPU must be compatible with a MB whereas the RAM has to be compatible with both the CPU and the MB, this because a MB can be compatible with faster CPUs than the one in your list of parts and MB manufacturers often state RAM speeds that far exceed that which any compatible CPU can handle, this is misleading at the least or dishonest at worst.

I have lost count the amount of computers that I have either built or repaired and when it comes to troubleshooting the first thing that you do is knock off any overclocking, just like using a weak PSU that may initially work with an add on GPU the GPU will eventually die and likewise using too fast a speed of RAM may work for so long and then out of nowhere it will start causing you grief.

Short version, it doesn`t matter what your MB manual says it is AMD or Intel that you need to check with when making sure that you don`t waste time and money on RAM that is too fast for your CPU to handle.

How do they get away with it, the max RAM speed is the tested speed and it is up to the purchaser of the RAM to make sure that their CPU can handle the maximum tested speed which in your case would be 3200MHz when XMP is enabled and not the 3600MHz that you purchased.

We are always willing to help but people that ask for our help need to work with us and not pick and choose what they take onboard, we are here to help save people time, money and grief at the end of the day and not to justify why something needs doing.

 

[Cheekykid]

Clarification, I have bucket loads of it, AMD state here up to 3200MT/s which means that if you have XMP enabled the RAM will get auto OCd past what the CPU can handle and the PC will become unstable.

Something to keep in mind for the future, a CPU must be compatible with a MB whereas the RAM has to be compatible with both the CPU and the MB, this because a MB can be compatible with faster CPUs than the one in your list of parts and MB manufacturers often state RAM speeds that far exceed that which any compatible CPU can handle, this is misleading at the least or dishonest at worst.

I have lost count the amount of computers that I have either built or repaired and when it comes to troubleshooting the first thing that you do is knock off any overclocking, just like using a weak PSU that may initially work with an add on GPU the GPU will eventually die and likewise using too fast a speed of RAM may work for so long and then out of nowhere it will start causing you grief.

Short version, it doesn`t matter what your MB manual says it is AMD or Intel that you need to check with when making sure that you don`t waste time and money on RAM that is too fast for your CPU to handle.

How do they get away with it, the max RAM speed is the tested speed and it is up to the purchase of the RAM to make sure that their CPU can handle the maximum tested speed which in your case would be 3200MHz when XMP is enabled and not the 3600MHz that you purchased.

We are always willing to help but people that ask for our help need to work with us and not pick and choose what they take onboard, we are here to help save people time, money and grief at the end of the day and not to justify why something needs doing.

Let me make sure I understand this. Is setting my ram manually to 3200mhz (which is what I normally do) not the equivalent (in terms of performance) to running it at the same speed via XMP? (lets suppose I had the equivalent correct module). I would also like to ask why would I need to boost the voltage? If the ram is rated to run at 3600mhz does it need extra juice to run at 3200mhz?

IMHO, If something requires expenditure and it is not a matter of simply changing some settings then the end user is justified in asking questions to alleviate his concerns over spending for something not "essential". In this instance money is tight. If I can ride things out I will but I do take the point that am taking a chance with this old PSU.

 

[phillpower2]

Modern RAM has two speeds, SPD (serial presence detect) and XMP or similar such as EXPO, SPD is what the BIOS detects on boot which for DDR4 for example is most often 2133MHz and XMP which when enabled will set the RAM to run at the maximum speed that it is capable of, the SPD of your RAM is 2133 as it is in dual channel and the voltage is 1.2V, go to your Speccy report and you will notice that these settings are the same up until you reach 2666MHz, what this means, anything faster than 2666MHz is overclocking and to be able to manually OC you would have to increase the voltage and RAM speed incrementally, 2800MHz and 1.3V an then if that was stable 1.35V and 3200MHz.

Regarding the PSU, as said your PC to do with as you see fit. you have the info and it is up to you whether or not you act on it, just keep Russian Roulette in mind.

 

[Cheekykid]

Modern RAM has two speeds, SPD (serial presence detect) and XMP or similar such as EXPO, SPD is what the BIOS detects on boot which for DDR4 for example is most often 2133MHz and XMP which when enabled will set the RAM to run at the maximum speed that it is capable of, the SPD of your RAM is 2133 as it is in dual channel and the voltage is 1.2V, go to your Speccy report and you will notice that these settings are the same up until you reach 2666MHz, what this means, anything faster than 2666MHz is overclocking and to be able to manually OC you would have to increase the voltage and RAM speed incrementally, 2800MHz and 1.3V an then if that was stable 1.35V and 3200MHz.

Regarding the PSU, as said your PC to do with as you see fit. you have the info and it is up to you whether or not you act on it, just keep Russian Roulette in mind.

Ok, I see. Let me first try fix the cpu temperatures issue and then I can investigate the RAM. Can a dying PSU actually explode? Do you recommend once the warranty is up to replace the PSU?

 

[phillpower2]

Download Speedfan and install it. Once it's installed, run the program and post here the information it shows. The information I want you to post is the stuff that is circled in the example picture I have attached but don`t worry if it does not display the same.

So that we have a comparison to Speedfan, download, run and grab a screenshot of HWMonitor (free).

To capture and post a screenshot;

Click on the ALT key + PRT SCR key..its on the top row..right hand side..now click on start...all programs...accessories...paint....left click in the white area ...press CTRL + V...click on file...click on save...save it to your desktop...name it something related to the screen your capturing... BE SURE TO SAVE IT AS A .JPG ...otherwise it may be to big to upload... after typing in any response you have... click on Upload a File to add the screenshot.

Screenshot instructions are provided to assist those that may read this topic but are not yet aware of the “how to”.

The attached videos are the ones that I use as an example to show the sort of equipment that is required to conclusively test a PSU + what can happen when testing old or cheap and nasty PSUs

What the equipment does is simulate a computer under load and so the PSU behaves as it would when it is powering your PC, multi-meters and the basic testing devices that you can purchase from some merchants only test the basic voltage output from the PSU rails and so cannot be relied on as 100% conclusive.

Cheap PSUs exploding when being properly tested

Jonny Guru video

 

[Cheekykid]

I think my motherboards chipset may not be compatible with Speedfan. My cpu temps are OK now but this can change. I am resetting the cpu with new thermal paste right now.

 

[phillpower2]

No worries about Speedfan because as said don`t worry if it does not display the same.

Zero wrong with any of your reported temperatures, HWMonitor is very good but the one thing that it does not tell you is the internal temperature of a PSU.

 

[Cheekykid]

No worries about Speedfan because as said don`t worry if it does not display the same.

Zero wrong with any of your reported temperatures, HWMonitor is very good but the one thing that it does not tell you is the internal temperature of a PSU.

Yes at that point, other times it is 65C+.

Repasting the CPU couldn't go ahead. Motherboard just died. I switched it off and it never came back on. I even tried with a spare Evga PSU. I think this may be a reason that contributed to the abrupt shutdowns?

I expect a new mobo in a few days and see how things are.

 

[phillpower2]

Being well versed in reading HWMonitor it is clear what your CPU temps have been and I stand by what you were advised, there was absolutely nothing at all wrong with your CPU temps, the highest temp reported was 66.1 °C and this was for the most important reading the core of the CPU and the temperature very good considering that it is the maximum that the temperature has reached when under full load.

When you say " I switched it off and it never came back on " do you mean you closed Windows normally and then used the case power button to turn off the PC itself.

What is the model name or number of the EVGA PSU that you tried and is it still covered by any warranty.

MBs don't just die something normally kills them and fwiw the biggest culprit is the PSU.

I expect a new mobo in a few days and see how things are.

Please tell me that you are not going to risk using the SS-850KM with any replacement MB.

 

[Cheekykid]

Being well versed in reading HWMonitor it is clear what your CPU temps have been and I stand by what you were advised, there was absolutely nothing at all wrong with your CPU temps, the highest temp reported was 66.1 °C and this was for the most important reading the core of the CPU and the temperature very good considering that it is the maximum that the temperature has reached when under full load.

When you say " I switched it off and it never came back on " do you mean you closed Windows normally and then used the case power button to turn off the PC itself.

What is the model name or number of the EVGA PSU that you tried and is it still covered by any warranty.

MBs don't just die something normally kills them and fwiw the biggest culprit is the PSU.



Please tell me that you are not going to risk using the SS-850KM with any replacement MB.

Mind you I had temps 65c+ on windows browsing. Nothing power intensive was going on.

Yes, I shut down Windows normally and then used the case power button to turn on the PC. It never came back on.

I have an inexpensive Evga 600W W2 that I bought 4 years ago for my then retiring PC however I never used that PC. Its been on the side gathering dust so this PSU is literally unused.

Seasonic PSU stills works after testing it with a tester however after this event it is time to retire it even if it wasn't the reason for the failure. It served me well.

I am looking for a quiet PSU as I work in a quiet environment that has a 10 year warranty. My case has a PSU cover to isolate it from the rest of the system. Do you highly recommend that I keep this divider in place?

 

[phillpower2]

Your average and maximum temperatures are perfectly normal and your average temps are actually lower than most users.

EVGA are one of my preferred brands of PSU as they are solid and reliable, what happened when you tried the EVGA **

Seasonic PSU stills works after testing it with a tester however after this event it is time to retire it even if it wasn't the reason for the failure. It served me well.

Did you even watch the videos that were provided !

As a PSU puts out various voltages +3.3V, +5V and +12V it may appear that the PSU is working correctly but it is not, any significant drop of any output can prevent the system from booting up, the other scenario is a significant increase in the output which can be worse as it can fry one or more major components such as the MB, CPU, RAM, add on video card etc.

Cheap PSU testers are not capable of properly testing a PSU and will only give you the most basic of information, save your money.

The attached videos that were provided are the ones that I use as an example to show the sort of equipment that is required to conclusively test a PSU + what can happen when testing old or cheap and nasty PSUs

What the equipment does is simulate a computer under load and so the PSU behaves as it would when it is powering your PC, multimeters and the basic testing devices that you can purchase from some merchants only test the basic voltage output from the PSU rails and so cannot be relied on as 100% conclusive.

Recommending a PSU is no problem but we will need to know the exact hardware that needs to be supported.

Not sure what you mean by a divider but fwiw a noisy PSU = junk.

Can I ask that you do not quote every reply as we have to read the full post to make sure nothing gets missed,, thanks.