RAM recovery

[Pyro]

Ram, like most all other hardware components, are capable of thermal throttling if temperatures are exceeding that of safe operation.

If you’re worried your ram will overheat and lose the data being transferred on them or damage the module, make sure you have adequate airflow to the modules.

[bbdra]

Im just asking if there is a risk with any genertion of DDR that electrons overcome the potential barrier
and will be accelerated into the gate oxide and stay there as excess charge at typical workload, and how much this phenomenon would have occurred in these DDR RAM generations in normal situations.
Simply said, would it be possible, for now available RAM, ie DDR2 DDR3 DDR4, to find out in practice and under normal conditions by this phenomenon, what content was in the RAM before it was overwritted?

[Pyro]

Anything is “possible” but I highly doubt this is a common problem since I have never heard of it.

As mentioned before, these components will typically throttle themselves in favor of saving whatever they can before crossing thresholds and barriers.

The only times I have heard of data being recovered off ram was in terms of forensics, but this was when using extremely cold temperatures:
https://ro.ecu.edu.au/cgi/viewconten...62&context=adf

If you’re looking for a way to make this happen, that is beyond my field of knowledge.

[Bruce]

@bbdra - you have logged in but not updated - still need help?

[bbdra]

Will ram cooling prevent in creating of excess charges in Yours opinion or do you think it may rather harm?

[Bruce]

for my two cents…
[ul]
[li]what you are worrying about would not come into play for any average Joe and his rig setup[/li][li]personally I doubt it ever comes into play anywhere[/li][li]if given a choice, all electronics run better cold rather than hot, so any cooling is always preferred[/li][/ul]

[Bruce]

@bbdra - still seeking advice?

[bbdra]

Yes, I need to clarify something if I can ask you.
How did you mean it that you personally doubt it ever comes into play anywhere?
You want to say that this is a relatively complex process so no one will deal with it, or did you want to say that there will be not enough memory cells for recovery, if at all?

[Bruce]

I’m simply trying to say, I doubt this effect of ‘hot electrons’ is any sort of issue for the mere mortal PC user to get worked up about.
and I naively base that theory on the thought that if it was some sort of underlining issue to be concerned about, that a) more people would have heard about it, and b) there would be something we all could buy to prevent the issue, or c) they would have worked out a solution to the issue.

[BlindSeeker]

What an amusing discussion. Simply put, Hot-Electrons are found more in high energy physics applications. A simple PC can not reach the high energy state to excelerate electrons to a high enough kenetic state. Nor the high EM fields. PC components would break down long before this woulod happen. Unless the definition of Hot-Electron has changed in the last 10 years then I would say the issue does not apply in the realm of low power devices like PC’s.

[BlindSeeker]

@Bruce Very good Mate. Your logic is true and sound. If the OP wishes to continue then He/She needs to study up on the material sciences. The study can be fascinating.

[Bruce]

I’m happy for this thread to continue, but since it’s not an error per say, I’ll move this to the Lounge where it can run its course there.

[BlindSeeker]

@Bruce - I doubt this will play out much more Mate. I’ve been in computing hardware since the punch card days and have only seen hardware with the high energy load needed in some of the super computer setups.. Some of those beasts had their RAM cooled with cryo fluids.

[Bruce]

never worked on supers, my first job had two Unisys mainframes which took up a whole office floor in Canberra. and some other companies had mini-mainframes.

but yeah, never heard of hot electrons.

I’m sure it is a real issue for some, just not anything I’ve ever had to encounter.
like the DASD Winchester drives weren’t problematic enough!

[bbdra]

Thank you for Your answers, I would like to respond to the posts

c) they would have worked out a solution to the issue.

The solution could be scrambling that started to be used with DDR3, You can read more in the document from 2017 - Cold Boot Attacks are Still Hot: Security Analysis of Memory Scramblers in Modern Processors

I can confirm that temperatures of DDR3 modules are slightly lower than DDR2, which is probably due to the removal of current peaks and noises, but using cooling pad, DDR2 temperatures are then same as DDR3 without cooling.

Regarding DDR2 and Hot Carrier Effects, I have found this article - Effects of Bias, Electrical and Thermal Stress on DDR2 Total Ionizing Dose Response. If I understand it well, then such extreme conditions on a normal computer can’t happen or am I wrong?

And one article dealing with HCE in MOSFETS - Hot -Carrier Reliability Simulation in Aggressively Scaled MOS Transistor , where does the author mention “Assumination of a Direct Relationship Between the Average Carrier Energy and the Local Electric Field”

A simple PC can not reach the high energy state to excelerate electrons to a high enough kenetic state. Nor the high EM fields. PC components would break down long before this woulod happen.

Could you please explain it more?