RAM recovery

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • bbdra
    PCHF Member
    • May 2019
    • 89

    #1

    RAM recovery

    Hello, I think about one problem and needed to know the opinion of true experts :giggle:

    I have read on the internet that RAM needs voltage to keep data, and that, the content will disappear after time, when you disconnect the power supply, you can also rewrite it quite quickly and easily, so the sensitive datata might be unrecoverable.

    But I found a study (Remanence in Semiconductor Devices Peter Gutmann IBM T.J.Watson Research Center) from 2001 on the internet, which deals with this issue in more detail and mentions the problem of “hot carriers”

    4.2. Hot Carriers
    High-energy electrons can cause other problems as
    well. A very obvious one is that the device heats up
    during operation because of collisions with the atoms in
    the lattice, at least one effect of the heating being the
    generation of further high-speed electrons. A problem
    which is particularly acute in MOSFETs with very
    small device dimensions is that of hot carriers which
    are accelerated to a high energy due to the large electric
    fields which occur as device dimensions are reduced
    (hot-carrier effects in newer high-density DRAMs have
    become so problematic that the devices contain internal
    voltage converters to reduce the external 3.3 or 5V
    supply by one or two volts to help combat this problem,
    and the most recent ones use a supply voltage of 2.5V
    for similar reasons). In extreme cases these hot
    electrons can overcome the Si-SiO2 potential barrier
    and be accelerated into the gate oxide and stay there as
    excess charge [14]. The detrapping time for the
    resulting trapped charge can range from nanoseconds to
    days [15], although if the charge makes it into the
    silicon nitride passivation layer it’s effectively there
    permanently (one study estimated a lifetime in excess
    of 30 years at 150°C) [16].
    This excess charge changes the characteristics of the
    device over time, reducing the on-state current in nMOSFETs
    and increasing the off-state current in pMOSFETs
    [17][18][19]. The change in characteristics
    produces a variety of measurable effects, for example
    one study found a change of several hundred millivolts
    in memory cell signal voltage over a period of a few
    minutes [20]. This effect is most marked when a 1 bit
    is written after a 0 bit has been repeatedly read or
    written from the cell, leading to a drop in the cell
    threshold voltage. Writing a 0 over a 1 leads to an
    increase in the cell voltage. One way to detect these
    voltage shifts is to adjust the settings of the reference
    cell in the sense amplifier so that instead of being set to
    a median value appropriate for determining whether a
    stored value represents a 0 or a 1, it can be used to
    obtain a precise measurement of the actual voltage from
    the cell.

    Hot carriers are generated almost exclusively during switching
    transitions [23][24]. The effects of the hot-carrier
    stressing can be determined by measuring a variety of
    device parameters, including assorted currents,
    voltages, and capacitances for the device [25].

    Hot-carrier and electromigration effects in the
    crypto circuitry could retain an afterimage of
    the key long after the original has leaked away
    into the substrate.
    1. Minimising RAM Data Recoverability
      The previous sections have shown a variety of ways in
      which stored data can leave traces of its existence
      behind. These include the effects of electrical stress on
      ionic contaminants and hot-carrier effects (which can
      be used to recover overwritten data or data from
      memory to which power has been removed), and
      electromigration effects (which can be used to
      determine, after indefinite time periods, which type of
      signal was most commonly carried by a particular part
      of a circuit).

    5.1. Avoiding Short-term Retention Effects
    The best way to avoid short-term retention effects is to
    ensure that no memory cell holds a data value for more
    than a certain amount of time. Based on the figures
    given earlier, a few minutes of storage of a given value
    should be treated as an upper bound; storage for any
    larger amount of time will cause detectable effects in
    the memory cell, although it may take quite a while
    longer before these effects really become a problem. In
    a series of tests carried out on a sample of SRAM
    devices, changes in device threshold voltage,
    transconductance, and drain-source current were
    observed after 100–500 seconds of stress, leading to a
    corresponding change in SRAM access time and
    operating voltage [43]. As the SRAM cell in Figure 4
    indicates, reads and writes of 0 and 1 bits stress
    different access transistors in the cell so that it’s
    possible to determine whether a 0 or 1 was stored there
    by determining which transistor was stressed the most
    (the grey dots in the figure indicate the main stress
    locations). The change in cell behaviour can be
    determined by recording the cell access time, through
    voltage microprobing of the cell’s transistors, or using
    some of the other techniques mentioned earlier. Similar
    tests have been performed on DRAMs, although in this
    case the emphasis was on stress effects on shared
    circuitry such as address buffers and sense amplifiers.
    While there were quite noticeable effects in all of these
    areas the study didn’t examine the effect on individual
    storage cells [44].

    So if I understood it well, the main problem is the high temperatures of the HW device. According to my considerations, this problem could be overcome by better cooling in the form of cooling pad, fan, or a better airflow.

    Is there an expert who understands this issue, and would you please advise me?
  • Pyro
    PCHF Member
    • Jan 2019
    • 1189

    #2
    I’m a bit confused by what exactly you are asking for.

    Adequately cooling ram (as all electronic components) is important, but it is meant for temporary files and running programs to store “active” files that are being used/modified.

    If you are looking for a way to make the storage permanent, there is no way to do this with the RAM, it is not designed to store things long term, you would need to buy a storage device (whether that be a SSD or HDD).

    Comment

    • Bruce
      PCHF Member
      • Oct 2017
      • 10697

      #3
      RAM (random access memory) is volatile, that is, lose the power and you lose the data.
      that is what ‘memory leakage’ is all about, if the RAM isn’t refreshed every 5ns (or something like that) the charge in that cell dissipates and the state of the cell (charged or not charged) is lost.

      your quoted report doesn’t mention what it classes has “high energy”, and I’d be surprised if your home PC falls into that category.
      it also is referring to SRAM which is CPU cache, DRAM is PC memory.

      Comment

      • bbdra
        PCHF Member
        • May 2019
        • 89

        #4
        Originally posted by Bruce
        your quoted report doesn’t mention what it classes has “high energy”, and I’d be surprised if your home PC falls into that category.
        it also is referring to SRAM which is CPU cache, DRAM is PC memory.
        I think they mean all devices containing large printed connections, logical circuits with typical power supply (24V 12V 5V 3,3V) such as desktop computers or notebooks, that contain MOSFETS with high densities like DDR1, DDR2, DDR3 technology that are the successors of the DRAM.

        As far as I understand, SRAM and DRAM uses MOSFETs with the difference that modern DDR2, DDR3 or DDR4 have reduced power supply from external 5V-3,3V to 1.8 V or 1.35 V. This corresponds to the previously mentioned: “(hot-carrier effects in newer high-density DRAMs have become so problematic that the devices contain internal voltage converters to reduce the external 3.3 or 5V supply by one or two volts to help combat this problem, and the most recent ones use a supply voltage of 2.5V for similar reasons)”
        I think it is precisely because of the high densitiy, so the individual mosfets are not cooled well, high temperatures occurs, and “creates more of the further High-Speed Electons”, as they said, which all the heating process probably multiply. For SO-DIMM DDR2 and DDR3 memoryies, the working temperatures are 0-85 ° C, which I believe, because if I touch the chip, it is warm to hot on the surface, I guess 42°C or more. The internal temperatures might be higher, which would correspond to information about the temperatures that are listed on the Internet.

        But I am not an expert and I am just guessing, so I will appreciate your help.:unsure:

        Comment

        • bbdra
          PCHF Member
          • May 2019
          • 89

          #5
          I accidentally sent a post twice, sorry

          Comment

          • Bruce
            PCHF Member
            • Oct 2017
            • 10697

            #6
            yeah, I’m no expert either.

            so what is it you are asking - do you want to know if data can be recovered from a memory module?

            Comment

            • bbdra
              PCHF Member
              • May 2019
              • 89

              #7
              I wanted to ask if cooling of RAM with a fan or cooling pad prevent the creation of an excessive amounts of other high-speed electrons. and how much it prevents in creation of the trapped excess charges, which can indicate changes in voltage treshold of the cell and serve as information for the recovery of overwritten memory cells.

              Comment

              • Bruce
                PCHF Member
                • Oct 2017
                • 10697

                #8
                wow - way too deep for this little guy. :whistle:

                I don’t think that’s an area any user will ever need to address.
                if such a situation was causing errors, issues, BSoD’s or what have you, I’d hope the tech boffins would be all over it.
                if from no other angle than a marketing one - “hey get this $500 memory electron fan to reduce high energy collisions” - the nerds and gamer nuts would be knocking down the retail doors!

                Comment

                • veeg
                  PCHF Director
                  • Jul 2016
                  • 8977

                  #9
                  https://www.quora.com/Why-don-t-elec...-the-electrons

                  Comment

                  • bbdra
                    PCHF Member
                    • May 2019
                    • 89

                    #10
                    Interesting article about electrons. Depending on what I found out in the remanence in Semiconductor Devices and in an article that posted Veeg, I believe that the temperature plays an important role here.

                    RAM is no longer hot using a basic cooling pad for $10, but it is not even cold. It is warm, and personally I would not consider such a temperature to be an extreme case, rather as a average working temperature.

                    If the conductor is not warm, the electrons will not friction and there will be no further heat. In my opinion, RAM cooling should reduce or prevent the creation of excessive charges, what do you think, am I wrong?

                    Comment

                    • bbdra
                      PCHF Member
                      • May 2019
                      • 89

                      #11
                      Semiconductors are insulators at very low temperatures, but at a suitable temperature, the additional thermal energy allows electrons to jump into the conduction band. Semiconductors can be elements such as Germanium, Zinc, and Silicon, or compounds.

                      [HEADING=1]Hot-Electrons[/HEADING]
                      Hot-electrons occur when a strong electric field is applied across a semiconductor. The electrons obtain energy from the applied electric field, which they dissipate by emitting phonons, exciting other electrons or emitting photons. When an electron’s energy exceeds the average thermal energy of the semiconductor, the increase in kinetic energy of the electrons is statistically interpreted as a raising of the electrons’ temperature, so they are termed ‘hot electrons’ . A rough estimate of the threshold electric-field, E threquired to create hot-electrons is given by Ridley [1]



                      RIGHT[/RIGHT]

                      Where E 0 is the energy with zero applied field, and m and t E are the mobility and the energy relaxation time measured at zero field. Typically, E th is about 1kV cm -1 .

                      This phenomenon is therefore dependent on the semiconductor temperature, am I right?

                      Comment

                      • veeg
                        PCHF Director
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 8977

                        #12
                        The same question here.. Are you have a ram issue on your pc or not?

                        Comment

                        • bbdra
                          PCHF Member
                          • May 2019
                          • 89

                          #13
                          RAM modules are fully functional,I just don’t know how much the chance is that they will produce Hot Elelectron’s / Hot Carrier Effect by normal use, and if at all.

                          I also wonder what generation RAM is suffering from this problem?

                          Comment

                          • veeg
                            PCHF Director
                            • Jul 2016
                            • 8977

                            #14
                            Knowing what generation of ram that may have these issues would be dependent on what info one get’s from the manufacturers, if any .

                            Comment

                            • bbdra
                              PCHF Member
                              • May 2019
                              • 89

                              #15
                              I don’t know if I understood it, but if RAM module remains at low temperatures, it should not occur that the energy of electron exceeds the average thermal energy of the memory dices or conducctor. Isn’t there any electro engineer on the forum that could help?

                              Comment

                              Working...