Laptop Freezes

[Dts007]

Hi everyone. I will try to keep it short while providing as much detail as possible.

It is a Toshiba Qosmio F60 (PQF65C-00M02D) and I believe it is at least 4 years old.

The problem occurred 2 months ago. It would freeze at random times, usually within 1-2 hours after using. Other times it would freeze within 30 minutes after using or immediately while windows was still loading. A loading sound always followed everytime it froze and it sounded like a game or movie running in the CD ROM drive. There was no beeping or irritating sounds nor was it overheating and the fan was still running. Sometimes the Toshiba would automatically shut down after freezing and other times a forced shut down was required and the startup afterwards was usually hard. If I was lucky, it would start on the first try and proceed as I normally would. However, it usually required at least 2-3 tries and each failed attempt showed a black screen without any message (before the windows startup screen where you can hit F12 to go into BIOS settings) and then shut down itself.

Freezing times seemed random because even when I said" usually within 1-2 hours after using" it would sometimes freeze at exactly the 1 hour mark, 10 minutes later, 20 minutes, 40 minutes...etc. It also didn't seem to be related to what I was doing. It froze while I was surfing the net, watching a movie and sometimes using Skype. The weird part was some days I could use it consecutively for 3 days and each time 4-5 hours or until I shut down manually.

A few weeks ago I checked the BIOS configurations and everything seemed alright. Then I formatted the C: drive, reinstalled Windows 10 and manually updated all the drivers and I thought the problem was solved because I could use it consecutively for a week without freezing. However, the problem came back a few days ago but to a lesser degree. Freezing was less often and mostly when I was using something like Skype. Forced shut down was still required at times but startup afterwards was relatively easier, usually after 1-2 tries. Now it usually doesn't freeze, maybe once in a while, when I am only surfing the internet and can be used for 6-7 hours.

Error messages I got before I did the formatting and reinstallation of Windows 10:

1. Blue screen that said "Your device has incurred an error and needs to be restarted". Sometimes it showed up after freezing and sometimes it didn't. Also, sometimes it does a count down and restarts automatically but other times I had to do a forced shut down.

2. Black screen that said "An operating system wasn't found. Try disconnecting any drives that don't contain an operating system. Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart". This showed up after the Windows startup screen, the one you hit F12 to go into BIOS settings, and would repeatedly get stuck on this screen no matter how many times I restarted. This was the error message that made me format the C: drive and reinstall Windows 10 as there was nothing I could do.

After I formatted and reinstalled Windows 10, no error messages showed when it froze. It would just feeze on whatever I was doing and either restart automatically or forcefully.

I cannot tell if this is a hardware or software problem and I hope this is something still fixable. Let me know what is going on.

Thank you all.

 

[Bruce]

I think you may have to increase your believed age, the F60 series came out around 2010!
they were an expensive item in its day, so I'd spend a bit of money on it if it was mine to try and eek out its longevity.

my guess is the hard drive is failing - age, usage, one too many knocks...
because it happens randomly, with no consistent time, usage, or program patterns,
I'd be updating to a SSD, loading Win10 or Win11, and going from there.

 

[Dts007]

I think you may have to increase your believed age, the F60 series came out around 2010!
they were an expensive item in its day, so I'd spend a bit of money on it if it was mine to try and eek out its longevity.

my guess is the hard drive is failing - age, usage, one too many knocks...
because it happens randomly, with no consistent time, usage, or program patterns,
I'd be updating to a SSD, loading Win10 or Win11, and going from there.

It was originally my brother's. I found it while cleaning his old stuff 6 months ago but really didn't use it until the last 2-3 months and I happen to find this problem. I am not sure when he had it so I said at least 4 years .

I did a bit of research and found out that it was indeed not cheap. It came out around 2009, 2010 like you said and it cost around $2,000 CND. That is why I don't want it to go to scraps.

As you pointed out about the hard drive, let me add a little more information. I have an "Imation" SATA external hard drive and I switched it with the original toshiba's hard drive. The toshiba recognized it so I installed Windows 10 on that but the problem persisted. I don't know if this means anything.

Now I am not familiar with computers so please correct me if I am wrong. If Windows 10 is the culprit, is it possible to downgrade to Windows 7, which it originally uses, to see if the problem is still there before buying a SSD?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Bruce]

I would really consider going back to Win7 carefully, not only because of security concerns and it being out of support but other things like trying to find drivers and, moving forward, assuming you'll have it (hopefully) for a few more years, the availability of software, even hardware.

just as an example, you get an external USB {insert device name here} in two years but it comes without Win7 software - stupid stuff like that.

I assume it went to Win10 ages ago and was running fine.

your Imation external drive, is that still is the enclosure and you are booting straight from that, or did you remove the original Toshiba internal drive and put the Imation in its place?

considering a good 256GB SSD (Crucial, Western Digital, Kingston) can be had for under $AUS50, it would be a good path to go down initially.

let's get some details on the current drive.
get Speccy from here; https://www.piriform.com/speccy/builds
in Speccy, click File > Publish Snapshot > Copy to Clipboard > Close.
now you can paste (Ctrl+V) that link into a post.

we can then see what the SMART values are on the drive.

 

[Dts007]

I would really consider going back to Win7 carefully, not only because of security concerns and it being out of support but other things like trying to find drivers and, moving forward, assuming you'll have it (hopefully) for a few more years, the availability of software, even hardware.

just as an example, you get an external USB {insert device name here} in two years but it comes without Win7 software - stupid stuff like that.

I assume it went to Win10 ages ago and was running fine.

your Imation external drive, is that still is the enclosure and you are booting straight from that, or did you remove the original Toshiba internal drive and put the Imation in its place?

considering a good 256GB SSD (Crucial, Western Digital, Kingston) can be had for under $AUS50, it would be a good path to go down initially.

let's get some details on the current drive.
get Speccy from here; https://www.piriform.com/speccy/builds
in Speccy, click File > Publish Snapshot > Copy to Clipboard > Close.
now you can paste (Ctrl+V) that link into a post.

we can then see what the SMART values are on the drive.

Ok so here are the results on the drive. I don't know if I should share the full report online since there seems to be some information, like those under the network section, that seem sensitive. It's not that I don't trust you guys but I want to be more cautious on the web. (or maybe I am being too cautious...)

And as to the Imation external drive, yes I removed it from the casing and replaced the Toshiba original hard drive.

Also what does the warning status under S.M.A.R.T mean?

 

[Bruce]

Warning means there have been errors flagged by SMART for that drive.
your Reallocated Sector Counts and G-Sense Error Rate are the stand outs.
the first indicates bad sectors found on the drive and data has been moved elsewhere to preserve it.
the second indicates excessive knocks to the unit.
there's another one there you hardly see, Disk Shift and as the name implies, also means the drive has suffered a serious knock.

while there was nothing personal in the report, you should always be cautious with your info up on the web.
I should rephrase, yes it may be personal to you, but it's nothing we can use for malicious intent.

so they were the SMART values for the Toshiba, since you replace it with the Imation, I'm guessing it too has SMART issues. especially based on the fact it has been an external drive, it's just the nature of their environment to get abused.

so you have either been unlucky and both drives are dodgy, or one of the knocks to the system the affected the drive has also affected something else.

let's get the SMART values for the Imation.

 

[Dts007]

Warning means there have been errors flagged by SMART for that drive.
your Reallocated Sector Counts and G-Sense Error Rate are the stand outs.
the first indicates bad sectors found on the drive and data has been moved elsewhere to preserve it.
the second indicates excessive knocks to the unit.
there's another one there you hardly see, Disk Shift and as the name implies, also means the drive has suffered a serious knock.

while there was nothing personal in the report, you should always be cautious with your info up on the web.
I should rephrase, yes it may be personal to you, but it's nothing we can use for malicious intent.

so they were the SMART values for the Toshiba, since you replace it with the Imation, I'm guessing it too has SMART issues. especially based on the fact it has been an external drive, it's just the nature of their environment to get abused.

so you have either been unlucky and both drives are dodgy, or one of the knocks to the system the affected the drive has also affected something else.

let's get the SMART values for the Imation.

Imation external drive results:

 

[Dts007]

Also it froze 3 times as I was running speccy.

First time it was able to shut down by itself and restart but this message showed up:

Fixing (C: ) Stage 2 71% (397913 of 553912); Total: 74%; ETA: 0:00:28 I guess it was trying to fix the problem which I have never seen before.

And the other 2 times were just forced shut downs without any message.

 

[Bruce]

the Western Digital disk in the Imation enclosure only has one CRC Error, but I guess one is all it takes.

despite the drive being used as the main, system, boot drive, both are giving you grief.
from that error message after the shutdown, that also re-enforces the theory that drive is suss.

could easily be bad coincidence that both are unreliable.

unless others can think of something else, my best suggestion would still be to get a SSD and go from there with a fresh install of Win10. Sadly Win11 won't be an option as your processor would not meet minimum requirements for Win11.

@Rustys @phillpower2 @veeg @Evan Omo

 

[Dts007]

the Western Digital disk in the Imation enclosure only has one CRC Error, but I guess one is all it takes.

despite the drive being used as the main, system, boot drive, both are giving you grief.
from that error message after the shutdown, that also re-enforces the theory that drive is suss.

could easily be bad coincidence that both are unreliable.

unless others can think of something else, my best suggestion would still be to get a SSD and go from there with a fresh install of Win10. Sadly Win11 won't be an option as your processor would not meet minimum requirements for Win11.

@Rustys @phillpower2 @veeg @Evan Omo

Hey Bruce thank you very much for your help. If you will excuse my lack of knowledge in this field and if you have the time, I have a few questions.

1. I did a little bit of research and found out that reallocated or bad sectors can be either soft or hard. While hard bad sectors cannot be fixed, soft can. So in the real value of 714 given by speccy for the Toshiba hard drive, how can I know how many of the 714 are hard and how many are soft? Most importantly, how do I fix the soft bad sectors if there are any?

2. For the disk shift in the Toshiba hard drive, what can I do about it?

3. I also did a little research on what CDC errors are and they happen to be file or program related (Correct me if I am wrong). If there is only one CDC error in the Western Digital disk that might be causing a faulty hard drive, how can I locate and fix it?

4. Am I better off using the Western Digital disk since reallocated sector count is 0. Can I also rule out the possibility of a faulty hard drive that is causing the laptop to freeze if I can find and fix the one and only CDC error since there is no other significant errors detected by Speccy in the Western Digital disk?

5. From your experience with Speccy and in this field, what other parts in the Speccy report would suggest problems that might freeze the laptop? (I know this might be hard to say since you don't have the full report)

I will look into getting a SSD and thank you once again for your help.

 

[Bruce]

overall, when a drive starts throwing out errors, for me, all bets are off.
this device stores my digital life and I demand 100% reliability!
of course you never get that which is why we backup, but if you can't trust your drive, it's time for a new one!

as to your questions...

1. bad sectors can be locked away from further use by doing a low-level format. there is also the command line program chkdsk with the /r switch which can recovery data on bad sectors. it all comes down to the specifics of the drive and how the sector went bad and how Windows now sees that sector.

2. to be honest, that was a new one for me. not that I delve into SMART errors much (as per reason in point 1, if I don't trust my drive, it's out the door and replaced). and SMART values can be taken with a grain of salt - which doesn't help. not all drive manufactures follow the same guidelines and in fact the SMART system isn't even standardised or globally enforced. I've had drive report failures that have kept on going for years.

3. put the WD in the external enclosure, connect it to any PC and do a low-level format. for example, in File Explorer, right click the external drive, choose Format and untick Quick Format. it's 500GB so I'm estimating it will take around 3 or so hours!!!

4. honestly, I cannot say. it all depends on what has actually happened at the physical level of the drive and how reliably we can trust the SMART values. the chkdsk command or a reformat may 'fix' it but hey, as to what happens and for how long after that is purely crystal balling.

5. post the entire Speccy report for us to have any chance of narrowing this down any further. again, from what I can see so far, both drives could easily be the reason for your freezing. even if not, they at least aren't helping and have to be eliminated from the suspect list before we can move forward and potentially identify the next reason.

the good news is, even if you get a SSD and it doesn't help, worst case is you now have a nice drive to use for furure backups!
best case, it was all the laptop needed, you reload Win10 and POW - up and running.

other possibilities that would be cheap and easily fixed is the memory.
it may be caused by the age or the long storage time, maybe the motherboard capacitors have failed or some vermin have hibernated within the case and caused damage.
but really, I think your best chance of success is hard drive replacement.
sadly, it's suck it and see.

 

[Rustys]

I would run a check disk on the drive using the /r switch.

To post the results

Press the Windows + R keys to open the Run dialog
Type powershell.exe
Then press Enter.

In PowerShell, copy and paste the command below, and press Enter.

get-winevent -FilterHashTable @{logname="Application"; id="1001"}| ?{$_.providername –match "wininit"} | fl timecreated, message | out-file Desktop\CHKDSKResults.txt

The CHKDSKResults.txt file will be created on your desktop,

COPY and PASTE the contents from the CHKDSKResults.txt file into a post. You can also attach the files.

 

[Dts007]

I would run a check disk on the drive using the /r switch.

To post the results

Press the Windows + R keys to open the Run dialog
Type powershell.exe
Then press Enter.

In PowerShell, copy and paste the command below, and press Enter.


The CHKDSKResults.txt file will be created on your desktop,

COPY and PASTE the contents from the CHKDSKResults.txt file into a post. You can also attach the files.

Thank you for replying Rustys
Here is the chkdsk log:

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is S3A5801D002.

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.

Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ...
773120 file records processed.
File verification completed.
Phase duration (File record verification): 14.52 seconds.
6153 large file records processed.
Phase duration (Orphan file record recovery): 0.00 milliseconds.
0 bad file records processed.
Phase duration (Bad file record checking): 1.44 milliseconds.

Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ...
355 reparse records processed.
920322 index entries processed.
Index verification completed.
Phase duration (Index verification): 1.03 minutes.
0 unindexed files scanned.
Phase duration (Orphan reconnection): 5.02 seconds.
0 unindexed files recovered to lost and found.
Phase duration (Orphan recovery to lost and found): 10.56 milliseconds.
355 reparse records processed.
Phase duration (Reparse point and Object ID verification): 9.60 milliseconds.

Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ...
Cleaning up 9 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 9 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 9 unused security descriptors.
Security descriptor verification completed.
Phase duration (Security descriptor verification): 110.72 milliseconds.
73602 data files processed.
Phase duration (Data attribute verification): 1.58 milliseconds.
CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...
610264 USN bytes processed.
Usn Journal verification completed.
Phase duration (USN journal verification): 8.14 milliseconds.

Stage 4: Looking for bad clusters in user file data ...
773104 files processed.
File data verification completed.
Phase duration (User file recovery): 23.09 minutes.

Stage 5: Looking for bad, free clusters ...
144174427 free clusters processed.
Free space verification is complete.
Phase duration (Free space recovery): 0.00 milliseconds.
Adding 1 bad clusters to the Bad Clusters File.

Windows has made corrections to the file system.
No further action is required.

612793343 KB total disk space.
35081948 KB in 230829 files.
152092 KB in 73603 indexes.
4 KB in bad sectors.
861595 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
576697704 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
153198335 total allocation units on disk.
144174426 allocation units available on disk.
Total duration: 24.45 minutes (1467080 ms).

Internal Info:
00 cc 0b 00 3a a5 04 00 ab 96 08 00 00 00 00 00 ....:...........
b8 00 00 00 ab 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................

 

[Rustys]

4 KB in bad sectors.

The drive is starting to fail, granted that 4 KB is not that much how long before it fails more.
Best thing to do is backup personal data once done get a replacement drive.

 

[Dts007]

The drive is starting to fail, granted that 4 KB is not that much how long before it fails more.
Best thing to do is backup personal data once done get a replacement drive.

So I replaced my Toshiba hard drive with the Western Digital and ran another chkdsk.

Here are the results:

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is ESD-ISO.

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.

Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ...
372480 file records processed.
File verification completed.
Phase duration (File record verification): 11.27 seconds.
6823 large file records processed.
Phase duration (Orphan file record recovery): 0.00 milliseconds.
0 bad file records processed.
Phase duration (Bad file record checking): 1.45 milliseconds.

Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ...
147 reparse records processed.
557034 index entries processed.
Index verification completed.
Phase duration (Index verification): 1.68 minutes.
0 unindexed files scanned.
Phase duration (Orphan reconnection): 2.92 seconds.
0 unindexed files recovered to lost and found.
Phase duration (Orphan recovery to lost and found): 485.39 milliseconds.
147 reparse records processed.
Phase duration (Reparse point and Object ID verification): 6.24 milliseconds.

Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ...
Cleaning up 64 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 64 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 64 unused security descriptors.
Security descriptor verification completed.
Phase duration (Security descriptor verification): 213.93 milliseconds.
92278 data files processed.
Phase duration (Data attribute verification): 1.59 milliseconds.
CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...
14705800 USN bytes processed.
Usn Journal verification completed.
Phase duration (USN journal verification): 619.85 milliseconds.

Stage 4: Looking for bad clusters in user file data ...
372464 files processed.
File data verification completed.
Phase duration (User file recovery): 14.63 minutes.

Stage 5: Looking for bad, free clusters ...
113758171 free clusters processed.
Free space verification is complete.
Phase duration (Free space recovery): 0.00 milliseconds.

Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems.
No further action is required.

488385559 KB total disk space.
32711668 KB in 271653 files.
169676 KB in 92279 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
471527 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
455032688 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
122096389 total allocation units on disk.
113758172 allocation units available on disk.
Total duration: 16.57 minutes (994760 ms).

Internal Info:
00 af 05 00 a7 8d 05 00 5f 2f 0a 00 00 00 00 00 ........_/......
46 00 00 00 4d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F...M...........

If 4 KB is enough to cause the problem, there is 0 KB in this one but the problem still exists.

 

[Rustys]

How did you get the operating system on to the new drive?

@Bruce

 

[Bruce]

good question Rustys.

@Dts007 - as a last resort, reformat the drive with the least errors and load a fresh Win10 OS onto it.
but that would be my last spin of the dice.

remember the age of the PC and ask yourself, "is this the line in the sand that I'm not prepared to cross?"

in case I haven't mentioned it before, even after potentially getting the laptop working, it's still going to be 10'ish years old (and counting) and you'd be betting that something else is on the cards in the near future based on that one fact alone.

that's why even if the new SSD doesn't fix it and the issue is deeper (processor?, motherboard?) at least the SSD can be used for other purposes.

 

[Dts007]

How did you get the operating system on to the new drive?

@Bruce

I created a bootable usb drive using the Rufus software then I booted it from the usb. The Western Digital is not new it's just another old drive I have.

good question Rustys.

@Dts007 - as a last resort, reformat the drive with the least errors and load a fresh Win10 OS onto it.
but that would be my last spin of the dice.

remember the age of the PC and ask yourself, "is this the line in the sand that I'm not prepared to cross?"

in case I haven't mentioned it before, even after potentially getting the laptop working, it's still going to be 10'ish years old (and counting) and you'd be betting that something else is on the cards in the near future based on that one fact alone.

that's why even if the new SSD doesn't fix it and the issue is deeper (processor?, motherboard?) at least the SSD can be used for other purposes.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind.

 

[Rustys]

Lets get a full speccy report post the link in the next post.

when you did the install did you wipe all of the old data off the drive and install the chipset drivers first then the other drivers in the proper order.

With the system being as old as it is it may have it in it to go.

 

[Dts007]

Lets get a full speccy report post the link in the next post.

when you did the install did you wipe all of the old data off the drive and install the chipset drivers first then the other drivers in the proper order.

With the system being as old as it is it may have it in it to go.

Speccy report is posted above. Sorry for the messy post and besides the network section, everything else is on there. I still want to be extra careful with some of the information under network, even though Bruce had told me already that they are irrelevant to others. Again, it is not that I do not trust you guys it is just to be cautious when sharing information on the web. Hope you guys can understand and also hope that the network is not the main problem causing the freezing. I am not a spy or a politician just an average guy .

Yes, the drive was formatted before the fresh copy of Windows 10 was installed.

As to the chipset driver, I am not aware that I need to install it seperately. I thought when I installed Windows, all other related drivers were also installed automatically. After Windows 10 was installed, I manually installed all updates that Windows could find in Winows Update so I believe everything is up to date.

Speccy report under motherboard:

Manufacturer TOSHIBA
Model Portable PC (rPGA988A Socket)
Version Version A0
Chipset Vendor Intel
Chipset Model Havendale/Clarkdale Host Bridge
Chipset Revision 12
Southbridge Vendor Intel
Southbridge Model HM55
Southbridge Revision 06

I do not know whether this is the driver or not but under Device Manager I could not find any chipset driver except under USB.

Intel(R) 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3B34
Intel(R) 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3B3C

Let me know if these are the ones you were talking about.

Thanks.