Pending OP Response Games Minimizing to Desktop or Crashing

[sakers92]

Hi, I have some issues with my PC. Iv tried some steps to fix it already, but nothing works, il be as detailed as I can so forgive the long post.

I purely use it for gaming, so I'm gaming immediately after start up has finished.
Without fail, after approx 20-30 minutes my games will minimize to desktop, and after going back to full screen, will crash within an hour(ish) to desktop with no error or warning, or worst case, it BSODs my PC.

I work nights and play very sporadically, sometimes I won't use the PC for months or weeks at a time, so I can't pinpoint when the issue started.
Sometimes il play for an hour max, so i only encounter the minimizing issue, but without fail if I game for over an hour - 90 minutes, it will crash or BSOD.

iv had it since new in October 2021, all components were purchased new, and it was built by a specialist, i had no issues for at least 18 months, but then I started a night shift job and my use became very sporadic. Making it impossible to pinpoint a specific date or update that started this.

It happens both on a 40" TV via HDMI and on a gaming monitor via display port. Both 1080p

Spec:
Cpu: AMD ryzen 7 5800x with a H150i AIO cooler
GPU: NVIDIA RTX 3080 10GB
RAM: 8GB x4 Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @ 3600
PSU: Corsair RM850w Gold
MOBO: MSI MPG X570 Gaming Pro
OS Storage: 500GB m.2 Samsung 970 evo drive.
Games Storage: 1TB Samsung 870 evo SSD Drive
Antivirus: Norton

Things iv tried already:

- Updated CPU and GPU drivers

- BIOS relevant as of late 2023, all games I'm playing are older than this date, F1 23, Fallout 4, Assetto Corsa.

- Added all games and software to Norton and Windows defender exceptions

- disabled norton and Windows defender completely, still crashes.

- turned off auto updates for apps/programmes

- set focus assist to priority and removed everything from the priority list.

- locked fps at 60

- windows is up to date, but never been freshly installed.

- ran with XMP on and off, no difference.

- manually set DRAM voltage to 1.38v (was recommended this elsewhere, beyond my knowledge level)

- Ran CPU overclock at auto and base only settings, no difference.

- GPU and CPU temps at time of crashes are below 68c. GPU is actually at 40c ish.

- ran stress tests on both GPU and CPU with cinebench, both tests completed, both hardware score very close to recommended online reference scores, at 100% load neither exceed 85c. Gpu max was mid 70s.

- checked event viewer, no relevant info to me personally, none of it even matches the exact crash time ot minimizing time, other than 2 events, which are security audit checks, and 'clipSVS starting'

How can I proceed further please? I can perform any data gathering tasks you need for extra info, just let me know what to do please,

Thanks for reading.

 

[Malnutrition]

Welcome to PCHF

Speccy Scan.

• Please go here and download Speccy.
• Install and run the program.
• Upon Completion:
• Hit File
• Publish Snap Shot
• A link will appear, post that link.

MinitoolboxScan.


Please download MiniToolBox and save it to your desktop.
Run the program by right clicking on it and selecting Run as administrator.
When the program opens Select ALL
Click Go
Attach the log or copy and paste.

 

[sakers92]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Here are the Speccy and MiniToolBox results as requested.

Speccy: http://speccy.piriform.com/results/0A55Q7Dkm736bBdEZ5WZcWP

Iv done a bit more digging, turns out the PC initially had 16GB RAM and i added 2 more sticks at some point in 2023, completely forgot about this. They are the same brand, model, speed etc. However iv read they ideally need to be a matched set, especially with the Ryzen processor.
I also cant remember if i bought them because of the crashing, or if the crashing started after. I only turned XMP on a couple of months ago, so i definitely had crashes with all 4 sticks at stock speeds, somewhere around 2400, theyre now at full 3600. I saw no difference with stability with it on.

I was advised to set the DRAM voltage to 1.38v, as it was on auto and sometimes at 1.37, which is apparently not good? this is a bit above my knowledge level though, but this was the most recent fix attemp i had, iv only crashed 1 day out of 3 so far, but that was on day 1 of the fix, so coincidence maybe? iv played a full 90 minutes each day. Slight improvement.

I also believe the minimizing is a separate issue, its been at 07.29am every time each day, and i started the PC up at different intervals after work. I have attatched a zip of every single event log that occured at 07.29am today, approx. 20-30. Maybe this can help ?

Thanks again for taking time to read this.

 

[phillpower2]

The RAM is not appropriate for your CPU, AMD state here up to 3200MHz/MT/s and if you have DOCP/EXPO/XMP enabled the RAM will get auto OCd past what the CPU can handle and the PC will become unstable.

Correct me if I am wrong but have you also jumbled the RAM up, the original two sticks should have been in slots A2 and B2 and any new sticks then inserted in slots A1 and B1.

The sticks look to be in the wrong slots + the RAM specs do not match, the SPD of the first two sticks is 2133MHz whereas the other two sticks that you added have an SPD of 2666MHz.

Modern RAM has two speeds, SPD (serial presence detect) and XMP or similar such as EXPO, SPD is what the BIOS detects on boot which for DDR4 for example is most often 2133MHz and XMP which when enabled will set the RAM to run at the maximum speed that it is capable of.

Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Computer type: Desktop
Installation Date: 19/10/2021 21:05:41

The original setup was not done correctly, it is what is called lazy as rather than it be done properly the system has just been allowed to work using Windows own generic drivers, how it should have been done and for as to why is explained in my canned info below;

Once Windows has been clean installed you must then install first the MBs chipset drivers then the storage/SATA drivers and third the graphics drivers, the drivers can either come from a disk provided by the motherboard manufacturer or downloaded from their site and saved to a flash drive etc, this is a must and Windows should not be allowed to check for updates before it has been done as more often than not Windows installs the wrong drivers or in the incorrect order and this can cause all sorts of problems.

The reason why this procedure is so important, the chipset is what enables the MB to be able to communicate with all the hardware + are the first drivers that Windows looks for on boot.

 

[sakers92]

Oh dear, what a mess. I take responsibility for the Incompatibility, i just assumed it would be ok since it was in the drop down menu on the spec page, it was a first time PC buy so i was very ignorant. Maybe the issue was always there, i initially played older games, so i assume the overkill of the PC for the game demands masked the instability, im now playing modern games at Ultra settings.

In regards to jumbling it up though, all i did was unbox it and put it in the 2 empty slots, i have never removed the original 2 RAM sticks that the company fitted, they also installed the OS as i requested it to be done for me.

Theoretically then, if i buy a new compatible RAM kit, il go for 2 sticks of 16GB instead though this time, and then carry out a clean install as per your info, it should be stable.

I appreciate your reply, thanks.

I plan to upgrade the GPU to the 40, or maybe even 50 series in the new year. is it worth fitting either to a system of this spec? is it more than capable or would i be better off just upgrading everything along with it? Im aiming for smooth 60 FPS gaming at 4k.

 

[phillpower2]

n regards to jumbling it up though, all i did was unbox it and put it in the 2 empty slots

The spec is not a match but it is possible that the RAM is in the correct slots and it is one thing you can check.

If the original two sticks were in the second and fourth slots away from the CPU and you have since put two new sticks in the first and the third slots that would also be correct, please advise on this.

Forget about purchasing new RAM for the time being and for now get back to us on the RAM slot info.

You are welcome btw

 

[sakers92]

Ok, no problem. I can confirm 100% that when I received the PC, the 2 pre installed RAM sticks were in slots 2 and 4.
Luckily I have a pic from before I installed the extra 2 to back this up.

 

[Malnutrition]

If you were to so choose, here are some steps you could do software wise.
You are in good hands with @phillpower2 & I am only suggesting this if you'd like to do any testing software wise.

Uninstall with GeekUninstaller:

Norton

Then Click View Microsoft Store Apps
Remove anything you do not use, including Cortana -- Copilot

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Create and run batch file.


Open a notepad and copy the entire content of the code box below.
Do not copy the word code!
Paste the txt into the notepad. Save the file to your desktop as DisableSmartScreen.bat
Now you will right click the on DisableSmartScreen.bat and run as administrator.

@echo off
powershell -Command "Enable-ComputerRestore -Drive 'C:\'"
wmic.exe /Namespace:\\root\default Path SystemRestore Call CreateRestorePoint "PreBatchPCHF", 100, 7
takeown /f "C:\Windows\SystemApps\Microsoft.Windows.Search_cw5n1h2txyewy\SearchApp.exe"
icacls "C:\Windows\SystemApps\Microsoft.Windows.Search_cw5n1h2txyewy\SearchApp.exe" /grant Everyone:F
taskkill /F /IM "SearchApp.exe"
rename "C:\Windows\SystemApps\Microsoft.Windows.Search_cw5n1h2txyewy\SearchApp.exe" "SearchApp.bak"
takeown /f "C:\Windows\System32\smartscreen.exe"
icacls "C:\Windows\System32\smartscreen.exe" /grant Everyone:F
taskkill /F /IM "smartscreen.exe"
rename "C:\Windows\System32\smartscreen.exe" "smartscreen.bak"
takeown /f "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\EdgeWebView\Application\131.0.2903.70\msedgewebview2.exe"
icacls "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\EdgeWebView\Application\131.0.2903.70\msedgewebview2.exe" /grant Everyone:F
taskkill /F /IM "msedgewebview2.exe"
rename "C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\EdgeWebView\Application\131.0.2903.70\msedgewebview2.exe" "msedgewebview2.bak"

In Conjunction with running this batch file I suggest:

EdgeBlock

O&O Shutup Ten
Move it to your documents folder.
Right click run as admin.
Go to actions, apply all settings.
Create the restore point when prompted.
Follow thru the prompts, and reboot if needed to apply the settings.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these scheduled task can be disabled:


MicrosoftEdgeUpdateTaskMachineUA
OneDrive Standalone Update Task-S-1-5-21-4253590412-3214397292-1675282156-500
CCleanerCrashReporting
OneDrive Reporting Task-S-1-5-21-4253590412-3214397292-1675282156-1002
MicrosoftEdgeUpdateTaskMachineCore
OneDrive Standalone Update Task-S-1-5-21-4253590412-3214397292-1675282156-1002
CCleanerSkipUAC - craig
ThunderMaster

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Open PowerShell as admin:

Copy the content of the code box below:

iwr -useb https://christitus.com/win | iex

Paste into PowerShell hit enter:

Under Tweaks select Standard:
Then under Advanced Tweaks
Select the following:

These are optional, if you do not use then remove them, as they use system resources that can otherwise be devoted to gaming:


Disable MS Co Pilot
Remove Microsoft Edge
Remove OneDrive

Then Click Run Tweaks.

Then Under the Updates tab Push the Security recommended settings button:

Reboot the machine and test:

 

[phillpower2]

Must be my eyesight but I can`t tell which two slots that the RAM is in there, it looks like two sticks of RGB but thats all I can work out.

Fair bit of work for you to do with this so I will for now suggest that you do the below;

Restore the MBs default factory settings in the BIOS, they are sometimes listed as one of the following " factory defaults" "most stable" or on newer boards "optimized" please note that if you have both the "most stable" and the "optimized" options in the BIOS you should choose the most stable" option as in this instance the "optimized" settings are a form of overclocking that can cause instability.

Save the new settings, exit the BIOS, restart the computer and do the below;

Uninstall with GeekUninstaller:

Norton

Restart the computer, test by using the computer as you normally would, post back with an update once you have done this.

No harm in doing anything else that Mal has suggested so will leave that with you, as long as we have XMP disabled while we troubleshoot this I see no issue.

 

[sakers92]

Must be my eyesight but I can`t tell which two slots that the RAM is in there, it looks like two sticks of RGB but thats all I can work out.

Not your eyes, its a terrible quality image sorry, i only had access to a screenshot at the time, i attached the source image and after zooming in is alot clearer to see where they are.

Restore the MBs default factory settings in the BIOS, they are sometimes listed as one of the following " factory defaults" "most stable" or on newer boards "optimized" please note that if you have both the "most stable" and the "optimized" options in the BIOS you should choose the most stable" option as in this instance the "optimized" settings are a form of overclocking that can cause instability.

Save the new settings, exit the BIOS, restart the computer and do the below;


No harm in doing anything else that Mal has suggested so will leave that with you, as long as we have XMP disabled while we troubleshoot this I see no issue.

I have turned off XMP and the MB / BIOS settings are back to standard now. I then carried out every step that Mal has suggested and i was 99% sucessful with it all (see below).

If you were to so choose, here are some steps you could do software wise.

Ok so;
Norton is gone via geek uninstaller.
I created and ran the BAT file with no issues.
Edgeblock is enabled.
All advised scheduled tasks have been deleted.

I ran into a couple of small issues along the way.

O&O Shutup Ten
Move it to your documents folder.
Right click run as admin.
Go to actions, apply all settings.
Create the restore point when prompted.
Follow thru the prompts, and reboot if needed to apply the settings.

This went sucessfully, but now i seem to be unable to search apps or folders by opening the start menu and just beginning to type the beginning of one, the search box is frozen also. is this expected behaviour? I can deal with this no problem in the pursuit of a stable gaming experience which is priority here. Just making sure i didnt cause an error somewhere.

Open PowerShell as admin:

Then Click Run Tweaks.

I carried out these steps however there were 2 or 3 warnings that were highlited, is this ok? the first warning seems to be a non issue but the 2 further down i am unsure of.

Other than this, everything went well and is all done.

Restart the computer, test by using the computer as you normally would, post back with an update once you have done this.

I am off shift now so my computer use will be erattic or non existent. The soonest i can update you with normal use performance will be tuesday or wednesday evening. Just to give you the heads up on a lack of updates until then.

Lastly, i believe Mal has solved my secondary issue of full screen apps minimising every morning at 7.29am. Funnily enough, the scheduled CCcleanerCrashReporting task was at that exact time.

I appreciate the help and time given to try and fix this issue so far.

 

[Malnutrition]

I carried out these steps however there were 2 or 3 warnings that were highlited, is this ok? the first warning seems to be a non issue but the 2 further down i am unsure of.

The errors related to MS edge and are of no issue.

unable to search apps or folders by opening the start menu and just beginning to type the beginning of one, the search box is frozen also. is this expected behaviour?

Yes. To remedy this you simply run OpenShellSetup_4_4_191.exe
This will allow the start menu to open and you will be able to search, since we disabled the resource hungry telemetry related Searchapp.exe.
You will need a replacement for it. No issue there what so ever.
Use open Shell as linked above or Classic Shell to remedy this issue:

 

[phillpower2]

I am off shift now so my computer use will be erattic or non existent. The soonest i can update you with normal use performance will be tuesday or wednesday evening. Just to give you the heads up on a lack of updates until then.

Thanks for letting us know

Does your picture show four sticks of RAM, two non RGB in slots one and three and two RGB in slots two and four.

 

[sakers92]

Yes. To remedy this you simply run OpenShellSetup_4_4_191.exe

Perfect thanks, all sorted.

Does your picture show four sticks of RAM, two non RGB in slots one and three and two RGB in slots two and four.

Only 2 sticks are installed in the pic. This was from before i fitted the extra 2.

 

[phillpower2]

Only 2 sticks are installed in the pic. This was from before i fitted the extra 2.

Thanks, the RGB RAM is easy to see but the black A1 and B1 slots or locking tabs are not.

Have you been using the PC at all, if yes, how has it been.

 

[sakers92]

Have you been using the PC at all, if yes, how has it been.

I have yes but only for web browsing which has always been fine, the fans seem to be ramping up alot less at random intervals though which they did before.

I may get chance to game this evening so will report back afterwards, if not it will be tuesday/wednesday.

 

[phillpower2]

No worries you have kindly let us know that you may not be around so no problem with any delay.

Rather than gaming, if you get chance please refer to my canned info below;

Something for you to do to see how your present set up handles video when not online gaming;

Use the free versions at the following links;

Stress test your GPU with Furmark

Check your FPS etc with SUPERPOSITION

Try first of all with just the two sticks and no XMP enabled.

If all okay, try the four sticks with no XMP enabled before posting back with an update as and when you are able to.

 

[sakers92]

I ran the above stress tests. I ran each 3 times and have supplied my best results of each 3 tests, all benchmarks completed with no issues. Admittedly though these are all with all 4 sticks installed. I didnt run them with 2 sticks yet.

Furmark 1080p: https://www.gpumagick.com/scores/560511

Superposition: See attached screenshots. I ran 1080p extreme and 4k optimised tests.

I also ran Cinibench tests:
CPU single thread score: 96
CPU Multithread score: 861
GPU Score: 13087

 

[phillpower2]

. I didnt run them with 2 sticks yet.

Sorry but that was not what was advised, you help us to help you and all that

Try first of all with just the two sticks and no XMP enabled.

There was particular reason why this was suggested.

 

[sakers92]

There was particular reason why this was suggested.

Ok, my apologies. Here are all results again with 2 sticks at DIMMA2 and DIMMB2 as recommended.

Furmark: https://www.gpumagick.com/scores/563331

Superposition and Cinebench: Screenshots attached.

 

[sakers92]

Since i had no noticable issues running the tests with 2 sticks of RAM, i ran them again with 4 installed. Here are the updated results. So this post in addition to my previous reply #18 are the tests done in the original order you suggested, again, apologies for not going this route as advised initially.
All tests done with XMP disabled.

Furmark: https://www.gpumagick.com/scores/566432

Superposition and Cinebench results attached. I know Cinebench has never been asked for however its already on my PC so i didnt see the harm in adding it to the other bench marks in case it can help.