Solved Computer randomly rebooted without bsod

[Lustro]

Hey, I've just had a issue with my computer, and I thought about posting it here in hope to find help. I hope this is the correct section - I posted it here because there are no bsod for the bsod section, but please let me know if this thread belongs to another section.

Earlier my computer rebooted itself out of the blue, with no error message appearing, and went into updating windows (an update was pending but I postponed it). I was playing a game online (total war: shogun 2) while talking with a friend on discord, I have done this before in the past week and never had an issue with it until now. The game didn't freeze or anything, the computer just rebooted as if it lost power for a moment only to regain it a moment later, and although I was not monitoring the temps when this happened, I have looked at them in the past days while I was engaged in the same activity and they were okay (if I recall correctly, cpu below 45° and gpu below 60°).

This has happened another time, around a month ago, while I was watching a live on twitch, but I didn't think anything of it because the light in my room went out for a split second and so I thought it could have been a problem with the power going down for a moment and not the pc, but now I'm wondering if even then it was something else. This time I didn't notice anything like that.

This is a link to speccy in case it's needed http://speccy.piriform.com/results/1gBlYAMEayPfSPcch4cOSio

My power supply unit is a corsair CX500, and I've had it since late 2012 along with most of this computer (I have changed ram, hard disk, cooler and graphic card), and as the computer is quite old I'm always wary of some hardware component going bad, but I'm not really sure what it could be.

I'd like to ask for your opinion on the matter, as there are no error messages and I really don't know: what do you think could be the cause? What should I do, in your opinion? Can I keep using this computer in the meantime or could another random reboot break something in the computer?

Thanks in advance for reading and in general for the help you provide in this forum, if you need any other information I'd be more than happy to comply.

 

[PeterOz]

One month ago and now could be the windows update - See what happens between now and next month.
From memory some updates come with an auto countdown and unless you keep postponing it reboots.
Honestly can't remember if it gives a final warning or just reboots. Did you notice on the reboot startup anything about the update?

Your power supply is listed as minimum required for just the video card.

 

[PeterOz]

Your power supply is also the minimum for the motherboard

To meet expansion requirements, it is recommended that a power supply that can withstand high power consumption be used (500W or greater). If a power supply is used that does not provide the required power, the result can lead to an unstable or unbootable system

You are sitting on minimum specs so in theory it should work.
Depending on the quality of the power supply and the age you are most likely getting under power. Especially when adding extra like gaming.
I am no power expert I will leave that up to @phillpower2.
If I was building this I would have used at least a 750 Quality power supply.
Although a quality power supply cost more. If you buy one with a Ten year warranty and divide the cost by ten years it will be cheaper then buying
two or three power supplies across ten years.
With proper planning you can also rebuild around the power supply as other parts are replaced to to wear or just money available that allows you to upgrade. You like gaming so as you upgrade graphics cards for a better performance you will need more power as the new cards are more power hungry.

PS
Graphic card power details from here https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-rx-580

 

[Lustro]

Thank you very much for answering, it is really appreciated.

Honestly can't remember if it gives a final warning or just reboots. Did you notice on the reboot startup anything about the update?

I don't know if they've changed it, but in the past, if you didn't keep postpone it something like this happened:

This is not the right image, but a banner like this would impose itself on everything else, telling you the computer needed to reboot in order to update it, and if you couldn't postpone it anymore the only button that appeared was "okay" and in a matter of minutes it would reboot. But this has not appeared yesterday (maybe they changed this?), the only thing i can think of is that maybe the banner doesn't take over the game window, so it was hidden behind the game and I could not read it.

I do have a second monitor and I didn't notice anything on that; also, the computer immediately rebooted without showing anything else while shutting down. As in, it didn't show a blue screen with a "wait" or "closing apps for rebooting" message or anything, while I was playing the screen immediately went black for a second, I also think the fans stopped spinning for a split second and it rebooted, just like it would if you clicked the reboot button on the case.

While rebooting it did update windows, as there were blue screens saying it was updating and once it booted there was not a notification for the update anymore; I assumed this was just the standard procedure in case of a computer crash, but to be fair that's just an assumption of mine and I'm not really sure about it. Is there a way that you know of to check if the reboot was just done in order to update Windows, or if it truly was something unexpected?

You are sitting on minimum specs so in theory it should work.
Depending on the quality of the power supply and the age you are most likely getting under power. Especially when adding extra like gaming.
I am no power expert I will leave that up to @phillpower2.

Until recently this has luckily worked fine! I've had the current setup (with this graphic card) since around 2016, and in the past I've even played something more demanding (the witcher 3) and I've never had any issue with that.

But age is indeed what is worrying me, as this motherboard and psu have been running since late 2012. When it comes to these things I'm really not that knowleadgeable, and so I have no idea how I would even test if the psu can still work fine or if it is damaged, and even if it is possibile for it to degrade or if these problems are all just software and not hardware related. Is there a way to test and check if I'm getting under powered like you suggested, and do you think that could be the cause?


As for the upgrading you suggested, I will keep it in mind for sure, but sadly I think I have to prioritize getting a laptop first. Because of that, I would like to change components only if strictly necessary. If this problem is indeed caused by something hardware "going bad" I'll definitely look into replacing it (which includes the 750W psu you suggested in case that's where the problem lies).

Thank you once again for the help and sorry for the English

 

[PeterOz]

sorry for the English

Your English is fine.
Check windows event logs
To access the Event Viewer in Windows10, and : Right click on the Start button and select Control Panel > System & Security and double-click Administrative tools. Double-click Event Viewer.
Have a look at the time of the reboot

 

[Lustro]

Thanks, this is what I can see in the Event Viewer

The selected one is when the random reebot happened. Below, in the "general" panel, it translates to:"Reboot of the system without a regular shoutdown. This error could be caused by an interruption, a crash or by an unexpected power failure of the system". I think this still does leave both options open? Because it doesn't really specify, so it could either be an interruption caused by a forced update of windows without notification, or a power failure or a crash.
The error right below the selected one reads, in its "general" panel:"Previous unexpected system shutdown at 18:34:34 on 18/01/2022" which is really weird because, as you can see in the screenshot as well, at 18:34:34 the computer was working perfectly fine and there was no shutdown, that only happened around half an hour later. Could this be a hint to something?
The error over the selected one reads "Audit events not processed by the transport. 0.".

Besides these three, another interesting one could maybe be the application error at 19.05.51, but that happened after the reboot and if this was a crash caused by an application I think I would have got a blue screen of death rather than a reboot with no error messages.

Is anything of value or hint you see in the screenshot? If it can be helpful, I'm willing to translate any event in the screenshot that could be useful.

 

[phillpower2]

Peter is spot on as even when out of the box new that PSU should not be used anywhere near anything more that integrated graphics or at most a 64 bit low profile card, Corsair actually advise the below, add this to the fact that the PSU is getting on for ten years old and you have multiple monitors hooked up and you are playing Russian Roulette, it is not if but when will the PSU go bang on you.

CX Series Modular power supply units are an excellent choice for basic system builds and desktop PC computer upgrades, offering high reliability, low noise, and the flexibility of modular cabling.

The modular versions of the PSU were better as well.

It will be painful but remove the add on GPU and stick to only having the one screen until you are able to swap in an appropriate PSU, anything 500W Gold efficiency rated from Corsair, EVGA or Seasonic will do.

 

[Lustro]

Hi phillpower2, thank you very much for your opinion on the matter, I really appreciate it.

Wow, I didn't realize it was this bad; admittedly, I have been pretty superficial about it because it has been working fine for all these years. But from what you're saying, I get that even if the psu was not the cause of the random reboot (although it could be, right?) I should still look into replacing it, as it's not safe.

I have talked with a family member who said has a spare PSU. It's an xfx xps-650w-sew 80 plus bronze; it's not one of the three you mentioned, but do you know if this could still be sufficient? As it would mean I would not have to buy a new one. Thanks in advance

 

[phillpower2]

That is only marginally better at seven years old, it is better than the CX but is two years out of warranty so using it comes with risk.

You are welcome

 

[PeterOz]

Thanks Phill
Lustro It can't hurt to try another PSU If you know it was working ok before.
As I mentioned you can start to save for a new power supply and use it as a base for a rebuild.
You do not have to start replacing parts straight away but when you do, look at building a bit of future proof into the system.

Cheers
PeterOz

 

[Lustro]

Thank you very much for the precious information!

It's a bit of a bummer that the other psu is only marginally better, at least it's free, thanks for letting me know. I hope I'm not bothering you too much, if I am please let me know, but I still have some doubts: phillpower2 mentioned that I should remove one monitor and the gpu until I can afford a better psu than the corsair one; is that what I should do for the xfx psu as well? Or can I use that with two monitors and the external gpu until I can get a better one?

As for buying a future proof psu, I'll keep that in mind thanks. Do you have any advice in that regard? I guess for that purpose the ones suggested by phillpower2 would not do as they are "only" 500W, but I'm not too sure.

By they way, I can confirm that once the computer crashes, it automatically updates windows, at least it did for me. In fact, earlier I've had a blackout, this time it was in the whole house so it wasn't the computer's fault, and once the power came back I booted the computer and it updated windows, even though I postponed the new update that was notified a week from now. That sadly means that the random reboot I've had the other day and which made me open this thread may not be caused by windows forcing an update, as it would have updated anyways after a crash, so the fact that it did is not an indication of anything, at least I think .
But I have to say, this time something a bit different happened, as the computer booted itself, did something in the first screen that appears (not the windows one but in the one with the motherboard's name) about updating the system, rebooted itself and then a screen of windows saying it was "cleaning" came up and loaded.
When the random reboot, the one of two days ago, happened, it just rebooted once and there was just a blue screen of windows installing the update. But once again, I really don't know if this is an indication of anything, but I thought it may still be useful to post this information.

 

[PeterOz]

As for buying a future proof psu, I'll keep that in mind thanks. Do you have any advice in that regard? I guess for that purpose the ones suggested by phillpower2 would not do as they are "only" 500W, but I'm not too sure.

I bow to Phill when it comes to power supplies

I hope I'm not bothering you too much,

No not at all that is why we do this - to try and help.
Sometimes a computer does get a hiccup and reboots. I can not say for certain what causes it to happen. I can be a slight voltage drop in the main power.
I have it every once in a blue moon.
If you live in an area that suffers dodgy power the only real option is to spend more money (of course) and install a quality UPS.
Which will smooth any power ripples and if setup correctly will also protect data.
If you loose main power it gives you enough time to save everything and shut the computer down correctly.
Is it worth it ? only you can answer that.
I do not use a UPS because the odd restart for no reason is not a concern for me.
I am very rarely doing something that If the power interrupts and I loose the data - so what

 

[Lustro]

Thanks as always for answering and helping. I see, then it could also have been something "harmless" like a slight voltage drop in the main power, at this point that would be what I'd hope for.
The reason I'm worrying so much is that I don't really know how to check (if it's even possible) if it's something harmless like that, or if it happening some days ago and a month ago are signs of a dying psu, which honestly wouldn't even be that big of a deal if it wasn't for the fact that, as far as I know, it could also destroy other components, like the motherboard, on its way out; that's the main concern that's made me trying to look further into this.

Is it worth it ? only you can answer that.

I can see that. In the area I live, I'd say I get around 3-4 blackouts per year, but if I'd found that that something is wrong with the main power as well and it could cause these random reboot I would definitely invest into an ups. Sadly I also have no idea how to check that; it's also true that I don't recall having this problem in the past years I've used this computer.

I'd now like to try summarizing the info we've gathered so far, to take stock of the situation. From what I've understood:

• The cause of the random reboot is uncertain: it could be the psu, could have been windows playing games on me, could have been just a hiccup or a slight voltage drop. We don't know if it's related to the one I've had last month, could be but could also be just a coincidence. Event viewer doesn't seem to have any info regarding the cause.
  Either way it doesn't seem something that happens very frequently, because even if they are related it would mean that it has happened after a month of usage, and not shortly or some days after. So far I haven't had another one of these random reboots, but I also have not been doing anything that could draw much power from the computer like gaming.
  
  
• The psu should be changed regardless, as corsair itself states it's not good for something that is not basic, and it's old. I could also consider buying something future proof, so that I won't have to change it once again as I upgrade mobo, cpu and ram. Could also consider an UPS.

As of now, the only "solution" I came up with would be to change the psu with the free xfx one, especially if with it I can use the external gpu and the second monitor, which I'm not sure of, and see how it goes. This way I can maybe rule out the psu? It would be so helpful if a tool like "memtest" existed to test components like the psu, but I don't think that's the case.

What do you think of this "solution"? Not sure if it's the best course of action or not, if I'm worrying too much or not enough; either way, feel free to share any thougths, tests or possibile solution, as mine are just hypotesis but I'm really not that knowleadgeable when it comes to these things.

Thanks once again and sorry as these answers get long.

 

[PeterOz]

as mine are just hypotesis

A lot of ours are too.
If you worry about things like this that are random then you will end up sick with worry.
If it is something that starts to happen often then start to look at why.
Unfortunately the only way to rule things out.
New power supply - still happens
Ups
Still happens
New MB
Still happens
New Cpu
Still happens
New ram.
Still happens - Welcome to computers.

The cost of buying equipment to test a power supply is not worth the money for someone who is not doing it as a business.
Waste some time and search through your event logs and see how often this has happened.
Do you leave your computer on when you are not sitting at the keyboard ? If yes how many times has it rebooted without you being aware.

Do you backup? If not Start a backup plan now

 

[phillpower2]

As it stands, if not able to purchase an appropriate PSU at this time and you know that the XFX PSU is 100% functional;

Remove the add on GPU, swap in the XFX PSU, hook the screen up to the appropriate video port on the MB, reassemble and test.

If the above goes ok, ask yourself if you are prepared to risk putting the add on GPU back in and then testing with just the one screen connected to the GPU, these are the two least power demanding options that you can try.

You are welcome btw Peter

 

[Lustro]

Thank you phillpower2 and peteroz for taking so often the time to read and answer

Still happens - Welcome to computers.

In an odd way this is kind of comforting, knowing it's not that uncommon for that to happen.
About the explanation of why one usually doesn't test psu, it makes total sense and I understand now, thanks.

Waste some time and search through your event logs and see how often this has happened.
Do you leave your computer on when you are not sitting at the keyboard ? If yes how many times has it rebooted without you being aware.

I had to reinstall windows from scratch in december, so I've lost all event logs prior to that, including the random reboot that happened in early december. I usually leave the computer on when I'm not at the desk, and once, in november, it has happened that it rebooted, but I'm not really sure if that one was a bsod (I was having some problems with them during that period but I think they're resolved now, once again thanks to you and this forum), a random reboot like the ones I'm posting about or windows updating itself, as maybe it gave me a warning, but I was not at the computer for an hour and so during that time it rebooted and updated itself. These never happened the past years, at least from what I can recall, but it's also true that they have not been that frequent either so far.
Besides this, I've tried looking for some sort of "power related" warnings or errors in the event log during the day the random reboot happened, but it's just full of "Distributed Com" and perfdiaglog errors which should not be a concern, but nothing regardind the power until when it actually rebooted itself.
I've also checked the hard disk status via crystaldiskinfo and it states its status is "good".

Do you backup? If not Start a backup plan now

Luckily I do, the main valuable thing I worry about would be the gpu, which I think is why phillpower2 suggested to take it out

If the above goes ok, ask yourself if you are prepared to risk putting the add on GPU back in and then testing with just the one screen connected to the GPU, these are the two least power demanding options that you can try.

I see, thanks. I'm asking this just to understand, as power supply units are a mystery to me: would these tests be to check if the wattage of the xfx psu is enough to power everything, or would they be because it's old and so it could fail "out of age" and so would be best to not put too much stress on it, or is it because of the "bronze" quality?

In the meantime, I'll also start checking the prices of new psus to see if I can find a good compromise. I didn't think (until peter mentioned it) about getting one with a bit of more power so that I could also use it for a future build, and that might be the way to go for me. I'll see what I can do

 

[phillpower2]

The Corsair PSU I would never have used but the XFX if still in warranty I would not hesitate to use it.

It is the age of the XFX PSU and nothing else, put yourself in the position of Peter or I and you would understand that we have to make members aware of all risks and will not compromise ourselves or the reputation of the forum by suggesting anything that has the potential to cause harm, we provide the info and the OP decides upon the risk.

You are welcome btw

 

[Lustro]

I see your point, and it goes without saying that whatever happens it's 100% my responsibility and I wouldn't blame any other! I'm glad to know it's its age, at least that means that the other parameters are okay, unlike the corsair I've been using

At this point, I have an idea of what to do and will as I can. I will change into the xfx psu and then, I think within this year, change into a new, bought psu. I'll also keep in mind what Peter said, as these things can happen because of a hiccup and sometimes it's only that and nothing else, as long as they are not frequent.

In the meantime, this post can be closed and marked as solved! If even after changing power supply units I'll keep having these problems, I'll ask to reopen this thread to, at the very least, let you know that the psu was not it, but I want to stay optimist and say that this post will stay closed indicating that changing psu solved it, or that it was something random that hasn't happened anymore.

Thank you once more phillpower2 and peteroz for following this journey of a thread. Wish you the best!

 

[phillpower2]

You are a decent sort Lustro but unfortunately there are too many out there that are not, seen it many a time when someone has post on multiple forums, not followed the advice given on any of them and then tried to blame each of the forums when they have acted on their own and as a consequence something went badly wrong.

If you intend to swap in the XFX PSU in the coming days let us know and the thread can stay open, do stick to what was suggested though;

Remove the add on GPU, swap in the XFX PSU, hook the screen up to the appropriate video port on the MB, reassemble and test.

If the above goes ok, ask yourself if you are prepared to risk putting the add on GPU back in and then testing with just the one screen connected to the GPU, these are the two least power demanding options that you can try.

Doing the above should give you an idea if it is the add on GPU that has issues.

You are welcome

 

[Lustro]

Thanks as always; it's sad but I'm also not that surprised that things like the one you mentioned happen, one should often remind himself that this is all free help to be grateful for...

Anyway yes, I intend to swap in the xfx psu! I think that will be happening a little later this week though, and so because there could be a bit of a delay until that update I proposed to close it and reopen it in case of necessity. But if it's fine to keep this open for some days then I will surely update this thread on how the swap in went, when I'll get to do it!

I will do as you suggested; a question has crossed my mind: when I'll have to test the psu without connecting the external gpu, can I, rather than removing the gpu from the pcie slot on the motherboard, leave it phisically there and just not connect the psu's cables into it, or would that be unsafe? I know this sounds a bit silly but if I can avoid touching the gpu besides connecting and disconnetting the power cables I'd rather do that. If removing the gpu from the motherboard is safer I will surely do that instead though.