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Solved Unexpected Shutdown - CRITICAL [Kernel-Power (41)]

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ex0LL

ex0LL

PCHF Member
Oct 23, 2021
53
2
30
#1

INTRODUCTION​

Hello, and thank you for providing free support to the internet users.
I truly appreciate your work here at PC Help Forum.

Now, this issue is something my PC has more or less always been suffering from since its building back in 2020: sometimes it would just keep doing multiple days, sometimes the issue would happen only once a week, sometimes it just won't happen for months.

But it always comes back, and I can never truly reach for the root of the problem.

Most recently, after receiving additional help from the administrators of this site, to whom I'm truly grateful towards, I correctly fresh-reinstalled Windows 11 in the most correct and healthy way possible, thinking I could get rid of most of these kind of issues, but apparently that wasn't the case.

There's no real logic behind why this issue just happens, I wish I could give you as much information as possible, but again the frequency and times of this issue happening are completely random.

I'm afraid at this point this could just be an hardware related issue (hence why I posted the thread in this category), but I hope to at least come to a conclusion with you guys, if you'll help.

Thank you in advance.

SPECCY​

I just freshly uploaded my Speccy snapshot so you can have an overview of my rig; you can find the link below:

EVENT VIEWER​

Here's my Event Viewer right after I came back from AFK to my computer being somehow restarted (?), waiting for my password to be submitted.

Please note that Minidumps are enabled, and I double-checked if the "Restart Automatically" was UNCHECKED to let the Minidump be generated, but no Minidump seems to be generated for this kind of issue.


1706018335839.png

1706018353008.png


RELIABILITY MONITOR​

You can also check the reliability monitor, just in case you might read something I can't:​

1706018490675.png


Here's upon pressing "View technical details":

1706018517614.png


CONCLUSION​

Please let me know if you need any more additional information from my end.
Thank you again in advance for all the support you might give me.
 
#2
Hello,

These issues are tough with really no good way of resolving them. Are there no blue or purple screens of death? Have you noticed any patterns/similarities between all the crashes? To remove an obvious reason, are you sure that the computer is receiving constant power? It may be worth plugging the computer into another socket. Also, unless I am blind, I don't see the power supply in the speccy file. How many watts is your power supply? We should be sure that it has enough wattage to handle all the internal components, assuming this was custom built? (Feel free to confirm)

Now if it is not power related, then it will be tricky. Various parts may work fine until something happens internally with its programming that causes it to freeze and crash the computer. I would need to do some investigation if there is any way to see which part could be causing that since it doesn't appear to show up in the Event Viewer, but I don't know any on the top of my head.

Could you also provide more information on your CPU? What is its model? I'm not sure if it translated correctly over to speccy.

Are you also comfortable going inside of your computer? First thing you can try is to remove one RAM stick and see how well the computer runs after that. If the computer crashes in the same way, then that RAM stick should be working. Do the same with the second RAM stick. If issue continues, assuming you have onboard graphics, swap the graphics cable from your GPU to your motherboard, and remove the GPU. If issue persists, do the same with any other PCIe cards you may have installed. Then if issue persists after that, then issue is either with the CPU or motherboard. CPUs historically don't fail very often, so my bet would be on the motherboard. (Internal cables and drives shouldn't cause these kind of issues, but you can try to use the same idea on these if you would like). This process will take a long time since we don't know the root cause and the issue appears to happen randomly.

Let us know if you have any questions.
 
#3
DENMON said:
I don't see the power supply in the speccy file. How many watts is your power supply? We should be sure that it has enough wattage to handle all the internal components, assuming this was custom built? (Feel free to confirm)
Click to expand...

Here's my power supply unit:

DENMON said:
Could you also provide more information on your CPU? What is its model? I'm not sure if it translated correctly over to speccy.
Click to expand...

Here's my CPU:
 
#4
ex0LL said:
I correctly fresh-reinstalled Windows 11 in the most correct and healthy way possible
Click to expand...

Sorry but that is not correct, for as to why not, see my canned info below;

Once Windows has been clean installed you must then install first the MBs chipset drivers then the storage/SATA drivers and third the graphics drivers, the drivers can either come from a disk provided by the motherboard manufacturer or downloaded from their site and saved to a flash drive etc, this is a must and Windows should not be allowed to check for updates before it has been done as more often than not Windows installs the wrong drivers or in the incorrect order and this can cause all sorts of problems.

The reason why this procedure is so important, the chipset is what enables the MB to be able to communicate with all the hardware + are the first drivers that Windows looks for on boot.
Click to expand...

Speccy tells us that Windows was allowed to update before any system drivers were installed and that the first drivers to get installed were for a Razer device and not the more important chipset.

Also noted in Speccy the RAM is not running at 3200MT/s so is bottlenecking the CPU and there are two different specs of screen hooked up and that will cause issues on its own.

Will leave you with DENMON now.
 
#5
So the PSU looks fine. I suggest going through my last paragraph in my last post, starting with the RAM, since the RAM can suffer from uncorrectable memory errors that I don't think are logged by Windows but it does crash the system. Before you do this though, you can use the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool that comes with Windows. I'm not sure if it will be able to find any problems even if they are the cause, but if it does detect problems, then less work for us. You can search for the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool from the Windows search bar.

Also, the CPU does not have onboard graphics, so you will not be able to troubleshoot the GPU since you will not be able to see anything (unless you try leaving it on overnight or something).
 
#6
phillpower2 said:
Also noted in Speccy the RAM is not running at 3200MT/s so is bottlenecking the CPU and there are two different specs of screen hooked up and that will cause issues on its own.
Click to expand...

Hello Phill, it's a pleasure to hear from you once more! :D

That's dire news! :eek:

I was sure I followed step by step the procedure you gave me diligently, but I believe I mistakenly left my Razer keyboard plugged in (as it's the only keyboard I have) during my first boot, and I guess after all that's the first drivers that were installed!

Is it truly that catastrophic for my PC's health? :unsure:

phillpower2 said:
Also noted in Speccy the RAM is not running at 3200MT/s so is bottlenecking the CPU and there are two different specs of screen hooked up and that will cause issues on its own.
Click to expand...

So you're saying I should overclock stuff in BIOS to unclog the bottleneck caused by the RAM? :unsure:
As for the "specs of screen hooked up" I am not really sure to follow.. o_O

DENMON said:
I suggest going through my last paragraph in my last post, starting with the RAM, since the RAM can suffer from uncorrectable memory errors that I don't think are logged by Windows but it does crash the system. Before you do this though, you can use the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool that comes with Windows.
Click to expand...

So, first I try running WMD, and if that does not bring any result, I try the manual instructions you gave me in post #2?

Also apart from that, do you think you can help shed some light on the RAM bottlenecking the CPU?
I am not really familiar with overclocking, as I'm always scared to mess my PC up...

Thank you for the help! :giggle:
 
#7
I feel like based on what you have already done, you have ruled out software/drivers/OS as the cause in my opinion, but I do want to confirm again, there is no blue screen of death? If there is a blue screen of death, then I would take a picture of it when it happens. That may change the how we approach this. You can click the Windows key and search for "View Advanced System Settings" > Advanced > Settings > Uncheck "Automatically Restart". That way you have enough time to pull out your phone when it does happen, even if you walk away. I just want to make sure before assuming anything.

I don't believe you can overclock RAM speeds passed the advertised frequency. There is a relationship between the CPU and memory, but I am not an expert on that. It shouldn't be causing crashes anyway.

Do note, WDM will cause a reboot.
 
#8
Ok I see this issue is related to another thread: https://pchelpforum.net/t/windows-1...nerate-said-minidump-files-are-enabled.87997/

I have to go soon so don't have the most time to do research, but I suggest not going through with the memory troubleshooting, since I did not understand the full context.

So to summarize, and correct me if I got anything wrong, but your screen would be black when it crashes, but the computer keeps running so it is not power related. You managed to get a minidump but the crash was related to a video driver. You have reinstalled the video driver with none of the extra bloat that normally comes with it but the issue came back anyway.

I'd have to think about it. It's a weird issue. It could be a GPU hardware issue. I don't think your monitor configuration would cause this. Rolling back driver updates won't do anything since you said issue started when you first built the computer.

I'll have to do some research when I have time to see if we can avoid replacing the GPU.
 
#9
Thank you for your time and investment to my case. :giggle:

As I already had a minidump problem not long ago, the "Automatically Restart" option is unchecked as stated in post #1.
This previously granted me the possibility to give my machine time to generate a minidump file to examine.

DENMON said:
I do want to confirm again, there is no blue screen of death?
Click to expand...

Back to this issue, there 's no blue screen of the death and no general error displayed.

What basically happens is as if a power outage occurred, both my screens go black and my PC restarts after literal seconds, prompting me the Microsoft account password to enter the session.

And as you could see by the material at my disposal after the issue occurs each time, it's never enough to truly understand the nature of the problem or the root of the cause, always leaving me hanging as to what is the actual context that triggers the shutdown. :unsure:

DENMON said:
So to summarize, and correct me if I got anything wrong, but your screen would be black when it crashes, but the computer keeps running so it is not power related. You managed to get a minidump but the crash was related to a video driver. You have reinstalled the video driver with none of the extra bloat that normally comes with it but the issue came back anyway.
Click to expand...

This was a completely different case, and the minidump in said case was instead generated.
In that thread's case, my PC would freeze completely, not restarting automatically (despite the option being unchecked).

Seemed like apparently the issue was related to a latest NVidia GPU driver update going wrong. :unsure:

I solved that issue by using DDU to uninstall my GPU drivers in Safe Mode and re-installing them using a clean, fresh downloaded version of the NVidia GeForce Experience.

That issue never occurred again after this fix.

The issue at hand instead seems to be of different nature, and sadly it's almost untraceable...

And since it's been happening with complete random frequency on my PC since the first installation (had it happen sometimes multiple times a day and sometimes never happened for months in a row), it's why I'm almost blaming hardware at this point.. but the behavioural pattern is truly weird o_O
 
#10
I appreciate you clarifying the issue. You can follow through my steps before to manually verify the health of each component, but this could also be a power supply issue. I have to ask, do you have another older computer that you have where you can swap parts? That would be most helpful, namely the PSU or GPU. I would first swap PSU if you have another one. Hopefully it is at least 700W.

It's either a bad PSU or something on the motherboard.
 
#11
Thank you DENMON, I will try the troubleshooting you suggested by manually removing/changing/trying out RAM slots combination and I will keep you posted on the matter, I hope to be done within the weekend ;)

I also wanted to say that I looked into the RAM bottlenecking my CPU, and it turns out indeed like Phill said that my RAM was running at 2115MHz rather than 3200MHz as they were intended.

I fixed this by enabling DOCP in my BIOS and setting up memory frequency at 3200MHz.

I do not notice a big difference for now, but for sure it was worse, I assume :unsure:
 
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#13
Bruce said:
@ex0LL - any luck?
Click to expand...

Hey, sorry for the delay, I'm here for an update :giggle:

So, I've been trying to toy with my RAMs and try running my PC with different combinations, but I didn't notice any kind of problem so far.
I've also ran a Memory Diagnostic, and Windows did not encounter any issue.

I haven't been experiencing the issue since the date of posting, but knowing it's been haunting me for a long time, I have no idea if or when it's gonna strike back :cry:

At the moment I'm running once more with all my RAM slots running, and DOCP from BiOS adjusted the frequency to 3200MHz.
 
#14
Hello.

Sadly, I suffered from a heavy Trojan attack that impacted several users from the Valheim Discord forum some days ago.

I had to backup sensitive data and NUKE my drives with Windows Media Creation tool before re-installing the OS completely, but I wanted to tell you that 2 days after the complete full fresh re-installation of WIN11, my system suffered once more from sudden shutdown.

No minidump file was generated.

I'm truly just considering of just buy a complete new rig at this point, sigh...
 
#15
I'd be taking it all back to basics...
Only have one stick of memory, only have one SSD (and not the one currently with the OS on), turn off XMP mode in BIOS, and reload Windows (yes, again!) with the PC off the net.
Install the mobo drivers - chipset driver first.

Run the rig in that configuration for a few days and see what happens.
If the issue repeats, try another memory stick in another slot.
Also, only connect critical devices - basically just the mouse and keyboard.
If it still happens, I reckon you have a faulty mobo or PSU.

How old is the PSU, can you get your hands on another one for testing purposes?
How does the PC gets its power - straight into the wall, via a UPS, connected to the power board with other devices?
 
#16
Currently my PC is connected to a powerboard which in turn is connected to another powerboard plugged into the wall.
This is only a very recent change, as before it was only connected to a powerboard plugged straight into the wall directly: the issue would still occur.

I appreciate the further troubleshooting steps, but especially after the malware outbreak and these stupid issues respawning no matter all the stuff I go through to fix it, I'm afraid that rather than keep wasting all this time and energies I'm better off purchasing a whole new RIG instead, at this point.

I also lean towards replacing the PSU, if I manage to get my hands on a replacement one just to check I'll let you know, otherwise I'll straight up just search for a brand new build.

I'll keep you posted, and as always I thank you deeply for all your help.
 
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