Solved Very high power usage + frequent crashes

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phillpower2

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Once Windows had been clean installed were the chipset drivers for the MB the first to be installed and before Windows had been allowed to check for updates.

You need to change the Windows Power Plan to High Performance or your RTX 2060 will not get the power that it needs to be able to work properly.

Everything else in Speccy looks to be as it should.
 

ceruleansky

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You need to change the Windows Power Plan to High Performance or your RTX 2060 will not get the power that it needs to be able to work properly.

Everything else in Speccy looks to be as it should.
Even after altering this, the laptop crashes while rendering :(
 

phillpower2

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Once Windows had been clean installed were the chipset drivers for the MB the first to be installed and before Windows had been allowed to check for updates.

You have not answered the above, if you want our free help you don`t get to pick and choose what you do and do not answer ;)

Even after altering this, the laptop crashes while rendering

Can you tell us what exactly happened.
 

ceruleansky

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You have not answered the above, if you want our free help you don`t get to pick and choose what you do and do not answer ;)



Can you tell us what exactly happened.
I apologise, I didn't realise -
I'm not sure what chipset drivers for MB are, but windows was allowed to check and update first, before anything else was installed.. After that I updated the graphics driver.. Intel drivers were already updated when windows update was installed..

After that I installed the software I mentioned - SketchUp and Enscape.
Everything else works well for long duration.
Whenever I start rendering on enscape (it is a real time rendering software, GPU based), it works okay for a minute or so, until the CPU-GPU temperatures start rising. Even with fans on high speed, cooling pad, Air conditioned room. Once the GPU-CPU usage is at its peak at 90-100%, the laptop crashes with a BSOD - Kernel Data inpage error, Critical Process died, critical service died, etc. (Happens everytime the software is opened and used fir a minute or more, or an image/video is being exported). And not just Enscape, any heavy GPU based rendering software like Lumion too causes the laptop to crash and restart. It happens in the latest version of the rendering software as well.
I can use SketchUp, Photoshop, AutoCAD and everything else normally.
 

Rustys

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excuse the intrusion

1. Where are you getting the drivers from?
2. You are using the system plugged in and not off the battery?
 

ceruleansky

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1. Where are you getting the drivers from?

Hi there.
1. I have an NVIDIA RTX 2060 so I downloaded the NVIDIA studio drivers from their official website. For the Intel, I used the ones on their website as well. Few of the drivers (I think small updates of Intel and NVIDIA) were downloaded through the windows update as well.

2. Regarding this - there are two instances -
- It is possible to use the rendering software on battery power (no exporting, only browsing through the 3d model), although there is a bit of a lag as compared to when it's plugged in.
- While I'm exporting, I plug in the laptop because the time taken for exporting renders/videos on battery power is almost 2x.
I would like to point out that I have tried both plugged in and on battery power - either way the laptop still ends up in blue screens and restarts.
 

phillpower2

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I'm not sure what chipset drivers for MB are, but windows was allowed to check and update first, before anything else was installed.

This will not help as the chipset drivers have to be installed first so as to make sure that all the other drivers install properly, this would explain the BSOD but the other behaviour that you describe is typical of overheating.

Not around today as I have a wedding to attend to, Russ may be around to be able to help but if not I will be back online tomorrow.

For you to do meanwhile;

1. Copy any dmp files from C:\Windows\Minidump onto the desktop.
2. Select all of them, right-click on one, and click on Send To> New Compressed (zipped) Folder.
3. Upload the zip folder using the Attach button, bottom left of the dialogue input box


Download MiniToolBox and save the file to the Desktop.

Close the browser and run the tool, check the following options;

List last 10 Event Viewer Errors
List Installed Programs
List Devices (Only Problems)
List Users, Partitions and Memory size

Click on Go.

Post the resulting log in your next reply for us if you will.
 

ceruleansky

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This will not help as the chipset drivers have to be installed first so as to make sure that all the other drivers install properly, this would explain the BSOD but the other behaviour that you describe is typical of overheating.
Oh! Okay. Should I give it another try? Somehow it doesn't feel like it's a software/driver related issue (purely my assumption).
Also, do you think a replacement of "thermal paste", and opening up and cleaning the laptop internals would help? Is it possible that the GPU is overheating and causing these BSODs?

Not around today as I have a wedding to attend to, Russ may be around to be able to help but if not I will be back online tomorrow.
Oh no problem, please reply at your convenience. Thank you, and have a great time!

For you to do meanwhile;

1. Copy any dmp files from C:\Windows\Minidump onto the desktop.
2. Select all of them, right-click on one, and click on Send To> New Compressed (zipped) Folder.
3. Upload the zip folder using the Attach button, bottom left of the dialogue input box
Uhm.. Is it odd that the "Minidump" folder does not exist in C drive at all?
Something weird happened a minute ago - I searched for "Minidump" in C drive search box in case I missed it - as it was nearing the end of results (no results found BTW), the laptop crashed with a BSOD. I think it was "Critical Process Died" or so. It was odd since only Microsoft Edge and Windows explorer were open. It hasn't happened before.
Also, before I had reinstalled windows, there were no crash dumps to be found either! Even though they were turned on in settings. I had tried using the app "Who crashed" to analyse it if possible, but it always gave an error "No crash dump found. Crash dump creation is turned on in settings." something of that sort.

(Attaching a screenshot of the current Dump file settings)

Download MiniToolBox and save the file to the Desktop.

Close the browser and run the tool, check the following options;

List last 10 Event Viewer Errors
List Installed Programs
List Devices (Only Problems)
List Users, Partitions and Memory size

Click on Go.

Post the resulting log in your next reply for us if you will.
Please find the log named "MTB.txt" as attached.
 

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ceruleansky

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Make and model of the laptop
Laptop Details:
Acer Predator Helios 300
Model Number: PH315-52-74DX
i7 9th Gen - (16 GB/1 TB HDD/256 GB SSD/Windows 10 Home/6 GB Graphics/NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060)
1 year, 1 month+ old
 

Rustys

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If you turn of automatically restart that will keep the BSOD on the screen until you chose to restart the system.

The MTB file show the system attempts to create the dump files yet can not for some reason which explains the missing directory.

Here is where you should be getting the drivers for you system

You may need to change the site to the one that is for you and your country.

Have you made any changes to the BIOS?

Added or changed any hardware in the system?
 

ceruleansky

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If you turn of automatically restart that will keep the BSOD on the screen until you chose to restart the system.

The MTB file show the system attempts to create the dump files yet can not for some reason which explains the missing directory.
Oh I see! Is there anything I can do to fix the dump file issue?

Here is where you should be getting the drivers for you system

You may need to change the site to the one that is for you and your country.
Alright, will do that henceforth! Should I uninstall the current drivers and install from the Acer website?

Have you made any changes to the BIOS?
No not at all! I don't even know how to do that :(

Added or changed any hardware in the system?
No, the laptop back cover is still in the sealed state :( no upgradation or tampering done since it was bought.
 

ceruleansky

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Also, do you think a replacement of "thermal paste", and opening up and cleaning the laptop internals would help? Is it possible that the GPU is overheating and causing these BSODs?
Is this worth a try in your opinion? Or should I wait a bit?
 

phillpower2

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Oh I see! Is there anything I can do to fix the dump file issue?

Under write debugging information, change the Automatic memory dump setting to Small memory dump, be sure to click on OK before you leave the page.

Your computer is only twelve months old so do not be tempted to open it up.

In addition to the above, your GPUs memory is borderline on the amount required to run Enscape, 2GB is the minimum required which means the more you load the GPU the hotter and weaker it will get, 4GB is the recommended amount of VRAM for Windows 10 and if you get involved in VR 8GB of VRAM is required.

If not aware already Enscape has issues with RTX GPU features, see the info below from Enscape;


Known Issues:If using Revit, there are known conflicts with two other Revit plugins: Colorizer and Techviz. To avoid incompatibilities, please uninstall them before using Enscape.

DLSS is not supported on the NVIDIA GTX 1660 product line and although the GTX 1660 cards can run RTX features, you will likely experience many performance issues. In this scenario we highly recommend disabling RTX for these GPU’s.
 

ceruleansky

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Under write debugging information, change the Automatic memory dump setting to Small memory dump, be sure to click on OK before you leave the page.
Okay thank you, I wiill do this!

In addition to the above, your GPUs memory is borderline on the amount required to run Enscape, 2GB is the minimum required which means the more you load the GPU the hotter and weaker it will get, 4GB is the recommended amount of VRAM for Windows 10 and if you get involved in VR 8GB of VRAM is required.
Okay this is weird because I bought this laptop for the 6GB Graphics - I think there's an issue with Speccy. GPU-Z results mention 6GB VRAM/GPU Memory, so does the seller and official product page! (screenshot attached)
1628361079868.png


Even in the NVIDIA control Panel it mentions 6GB GDDR6. (screenshot attached)
1628361286429.png


So at least Enscape should be working right? I agree Lumion requires 8GB+ VRAM. But this is unexpected, I've seen Enscape work so well in office PCs with just 4GB VRAM.. I know PCs are naturally much more robust and suitable for heavy-duty rendering.. But I really didn't think the GPU would die so soon.

If not aware already Enscape has issues with RTX GPU features, see the info below from Enscape;
Known Issues:If using Revit, there are known conflicts with two other Revit plugins: Colorizer and Techviz. To avoid incompatibilities, please uninstall them before using Enscape.

DLSS is not supported on the NVIDIA GTX 1660 product line and although the GTX 1660 cards can run RTX features, you will likely experience many performance issues. In this scenario we highly recommend disabling RTX for these GPU’s.
Oh shoot! I did not know about this!
So wait - I can turn off the "RTX-Raytracing" option in the settings of Enscape.. Will it help?

I spoke to a few local laptop repair service personnel to get an idea of the repair costs, they said the crashes *may* be because of a failing GPU (they're not sure either, just guessing).. And the cost of replacing the entire motherboard-integrated unit would be almost 50% of the laptop's actual cost..

Do you think there's anything else I can do to make the laptop / GPU last a little longer, till I decide to get another dedicated system for rendering?
It's a very tough since it's just been a year since I got this.. I don't think I can immediately spend on another expensive system :(
 

phillpower2

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Speccy has it wrong as your screenshots clearly show, just keep in mind what I said though, the more you load the GPU the hotter and weaker it will get, only have open what you need when actually rendering.

Sorry but I cannot help with anything related to Enscape, you must follow whatever guidance they advise.

We will have to wait on any crash dmps that may be generated, you may not get any if you turn off ray tracing, the other area of concern is overheating, this is not something that can be physically fixed by replacing any part/s. the ambient temperature where you are and the type of usage of the notebook is what is causing the notebook to overheat, this why desktop PCs are better suited to stuff like rendering, a good quality externally powered cooling pad may help with the cooling issue, not the USB type though as all they do is generate more internal heat inside the notebook.
 

ceruleansky

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Speccy has it wrong as your screenshots clearly show, just keep in mind what I said though, the more you load the GPU the hotter and weaker it will get, only have open what you need when actually rendering.
Oh so basically reducing the internal heat generation, and ensuring that overheating doesn't continue for longer duration is all I can do at this point.

We will have to wait on any crash dmps that may be generated, you may not get any if you turn off ray tracing
I was thinking, I will try it a few times without RTX Raytracing - if it doesn't make the laptop crash, it may at least be a short solution to this issue.
If it still continues crashing, I'll turn it on and wait for dump files to figure out the issue.

The other area of concern is overheating, this is not something that can be physically fixed by replacing any part/s. the ambient temperature where you are and the type of usage of the notebook is what is causing the notebook to overheat, this why desktop PCs are better suited to stuff like rendering, a good quality externally powered cooling pad may help with the cooling issue, not the USB type though as all they do is generate more internal heat inside the notebook.
I see. Where I live is pretty hot too so it may have accelerated it..
Will try my best to reduce rendering durations and maintain a cooler temperature! I'll get the recommended cooling pad ASAP too.

Thanks to you and everyone who who helped - thank you for your patience and expertise. It means a lot! :giggle: :giggle: :giggle: you guys are amazing!
 

phillpower2

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Yes, when rendering don`t have anything unnecessary running and don`t connect an external screen up to the notebook as that can raise the internal temperatures up by 10 °C on it`s own.

If the Windows crashes with RTX disabled we have a better chance of any problem driver/s being flagged up, problem here though is that we know the drivers were not installed correctly after the clean install of Windows.

A cooling pad is one thing that may help but another is a household cooling fan pointed directly at the notebook so that the warm air that gets expelled from the exhaust vents gets blown quickly away rather than it get recirculated around the outside of the notebook.

You are welcome and thank you for the kind words :)
 

ceruleansky

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Yes, when rendering don`t have anything unnecessary running and don`t connect an external screen up to the notebook as that can raise the internal temperatures up by 10 °C on it`s own.
Got it! Will take care of this.

If the Windows crashes with RTX disabled we have a better chance of any problem driver/s being flagged up, problem here though is that we know the drivers were not installed correctly after the clean install of Windows.
Update: it still crashes with RTX disabled..
Do you suggest a reinstall of windows and drivers in that case?
I tried running the minitoolbox, there still aren't any dump files. The log still shows "error creating dump files".

A cooling pad is one thing that may help but another is a household cooling fan pointed directly at the notebook so that the warm air that gets expelled from the exhaust vents gets blown quickly away rather than it get recirculated around the outside of the notebook.
Guess what, even after keeping the laptop right in front of an Air conditioner (less than 20deg C temparature and vents directly pointed at the keyboard), the laptop fans on highest speed - the temperature is maintained at lower degrees but still the laptop crashes.

You are welcome and thank you for the kind words :)
:giggle: :giggle:
 

phillpower2

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Do you suggest a reinstall of windows and drivers

It is looking likely if only to make sure that the possibility is ruled out.

Can w have a new MTB log and Speccy url

the temperature is maintained at lower degrees but still the laptop crashes.

Please only use the terms crash, crashes and crashing if you see an actual BSOD and Stop Code, if you don`t see this the computer has not crashed but has overheated and shutdown to stop it from frying.
 
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