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Hardware Problem? Defective Parts?

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chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
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#1
Hello guys, so lately i seem to have lost the favor of the Computer Gods.

Here's my tale:

Recently i opened two threads here, this would be the third.

On the first one i was asking for help due to GPU problems, i had an old 'Sapphire Radeon HD 5850' and i started to get bad performance and crashes, i started to notice it on CSGO, but it was especially bad on Medieval 2, people talked about CPU problems, maybe hard-drive problems, but i soon discovered it was indeed the GPU, since it died completely not even a week after (PC wouldn't even turn on if it was installed), so i believed this was a conclusion to my thread, my problem had been "solved"

This is when i decided to buy a new GPU, i opted for an RX560 since at the time GPU prices were high and it was the best cost-benefit where i lived, after it arrived, i hooked it to my PC and it was under-performing BADLY, thus i opened a new thread, thinking perhaps there was something else broken in the computer after all, or maybe it was the Card itself? I don't know, but what i do know is that after not receiving a reply on this, and other forums, and after weeks of not finding a solution, i decided to just retire my old system, since it was really old, perhaps my new graphics card would work fine on a new system...

It had an FX6100 3.3GHz, 2x4gb 1333MHz DDR3 Memory, Mobo was an Asus M5A78L-M, 430w C3Tech PSU, Seagate 1TB 3gb/s 5400RPM HDD and the defective HD 5850 that was replaced with an RX560.

I went ahead and bought myself the following system:
Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz CPU
Asus B-350M Prime MOBO
Corsair Vengeance 8GB 2400MHz RAM
Seagate 1TB 7200RPM 6GB/S HDD
Corsair TX550 550w 80+ Gold PSU

I then strapped a 140mm fan and the RX560 i already had to this new system, i know it isn't the best system ever, but i expect to be able to play most games at High with at least 60fps, i know it wouldn't be possible at 1080p, but i play at 1366x768, so i didn't expect any problems.

To my surprise, the GPU was still under-performing, and i concluded it must have been the problem, and promptly sent it back to the vendor and asked for my money back, which they obliged after a good 3 weeks of waiting.

I got very excited, because while i waited almost a month to be able to buy a new Graphics Card, GPU prices dropped by almost 1/3 of their prices, and i could afford a more beefy Graphics Card, i ended up getting a GTX 1060 6GB and also another 8GB RAM stick.

This is where i lost all hope, GTX 1060 is better than the RX560, obviously, but not by a lot, it is ALSO under-performing, which leads me to believe that maybe the RX560 wasn't defective after all, maybe it was my CPU, maybe it was my RAM, my MOBO, i don't know, i've spent hours trying to find the source of the problem and troubleshoot it, to no avail. Now i have spent about $1500 on this system and i have no interest in even booting it up due to this problem.

Things that i notice while troubleshooting which led me to believe the CPU is the culprit:

Box states it's clock to be 3.2GHz with a MAX 3.4GHz 'Turbo Clock', it was set to 3.8GHz on the BIOS, which was making it crash when it's usage came close to 90%, happened to cause a lot of freezing on Witcher 3, crashing not only the game, but also the whole system, had to restart it manually. This was fixed when i set the CPU to work at 3.2GHz, and instead of losing performance for this, i seemed to gain a few FPS. Though Witcher 3 still runs at around 75fps, which is less than this system should be able to handle at 1080p.

CSGO, a very CPU-heavy game, has no change in performance if i set it to Very Low with no filters or Ultra with AA, it also saw no change in performance between the RX560 and the GTX1060, which makes me believe it is the CPU that isn't handling it properly.

Fallout 4, another game that is very CPU intensive, goes below 30fps in CPU intensive areas, which is completely unacceptable for this system at 768p, GPU intensive moments, such as massive explosions and big firefights are handled well, which again leads me to believe the CPU is at fault.

Skyrim with the RX560 was completely ridiculous, heavily populated areas had an average of 15fps, when even my old FX6100+HD5850 combo could easily handle these situations at 40+ FPS, haven't been able to test with the GTX1060 yet, but i don't expect a difference since it is obvious a CPU problem in this case.

Things that make me think it could be RAM related:

When i tested my RAM sticks separate, i realized one of them would get significantly less FPS on Witcher 3, one of them would get 40~70fps, the other would get 50~90fps, and using them both on dual channel does 65~120, i then went into the BIOS and realized one of them is working at 2133MHz, when it's stated both in the box and the stick itself that it's 2400MHz, and for the life of me i can't force it to work at 2400MHz, digging deeper i realized they are NOT the same model.

One is a 'Corsair Vengeance LPX 8GB 2400Mhz DDR4 CMK8GX4M1D2400C14' with a CAS Latency of '14' and timing of '14-16-16-31' This is the one that's working at 2133MHz and has worse performance.

The other a 'Corsair Vengeance LPX 8GB 2400Mhz DDR4 CMK8GX4M1A2400C16' with a CAS Latency of '16' and timing of '16-16-16-39' This one that's working as it should and has better performance.

Dual-Channel seems to be a problem here too, as playing Witcher 3 with both sticks on causes constant crashes, and playing it with a single stick, no matter which one, produces no crashes.

I now no longer have any evidence or reason to believe that the GPU is the problem.
I have no evidence or reason to believe that the PSU is the problem.
I have no evidence that the MOBO is the problem.
I have no evidence that the HDD is the problem.

I believe it is either the CPU, the RAM or both, but i have no idea what to do, is there anything i could do to fix this? Is there at least some way to know for sure that it's these parts, since i have already replaced an entire system and a brand new graphics card that might not have been defective at all.

Here's the Speccy link:

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/SjpYKxUvKc7eiEONjlKtDf5

Thanks in advance.
 

phillpower2

PCHF Moderator
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Support Team
Sep 9, 2016
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#3
what i do know is that after not receiving a reply on this,
Something amiss somewhere, Evan did reply to you asking how things were going and I myself asked on two occasions if you had any update for Evan, replies 7, 8 and 9 here so not quite sure how you came to get no replies from PCHF :confused:

Can only post briefly as I am off to work, I can see in your specs that you do not have the correct spec of RAM, you should have 2666MHz RAM with that CPU, see info here and here

Do you have a link to from where you purchased the GTX 1060 from.

Couple of other things to mention that we can see in Speccy but will come back to them later.
 

chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
20
1
21
#5
I'm sorry, you are right, i assumed i didn't get replies because i always checked them trough my e-mail, and i stopped getting them, now i see that you did reply but i just didn't see it.

The different RAM sticks thing was completely an accident, i was about to replace the C14 for another C16 stick, but with this new information about R5 1400 needing 2666, should i replace the whole kit?

The GTX 1060 was bought on a physical store, it is this version: http://www.galax.com/en/graphics-card/galax-geforce-gtx-1060-ex-oc-6gb.html

I thank you for the replies and again, i'm very sorry for implying i was ignored when i was just too dumb to check.

I am aware that something, or maybe several things are wrong with the PC, just want to know what it is so that i can fix it, i'm eager to see what else you guys can tell me, and if i'm right about this CPU.
 

phillpower2

PCHF Moderator
Moderator
Support Team
Sep 9, 2016
1,816
375
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#6
No worries and as you can see we do try and contact members if their thread goes quiet.

The RAM needs to be changed for the correct spec else you will never get the best performance from the CPU, we have no way of knowing the quality of the video performance but looking at your OP in this thread am I correct in thinking that the games are all played via Steam.

The GTX 1060 was bought on a physical store,
Not sure what you mean by this, a link to from where you actually purchased is what we really need, reason I ask is because in Speccy the card is listed as 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
 

chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
20
1
21
#7

phillpower2

PCHF Moderator
Moderator
Support Team
Sep 9, 2016
1,816
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#8
we have no way of knowing the quality of the video performance but looking at your OP in this thread am I correct in thinking that the games are all played via Steam.
Can you also answer the above question for us, it is important that we know.

Thanks for the GPU info which shows the card to be as it should be, nothing to do with trusting Speccy or not and the reason why I asked was because there are a lot of counterfeit GPUs and RAM sticks in circulation atm, no reputable store would knowingly sell you one but unscrupulous sellers on the like of ebay would.
 

chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
20
1
21
#10
Sorry for the delay, i'm not exactly sure what you mean by "quality of the video performance", but i'm doing a few benchmarks to provide you guys with some data.
 

chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
20
1
21
#12
Okay, first of all sorry for the long wait, i've been quite busy as of late.

So here are a few results on my GPU/PC

Uningine Heaven:
(Render: Direct3D11, Mode: 1366x768 8xAA fullscreen, Preset: Custom, Quality: Ultra, Tessellation: Extreme)
FPS: 100.4
Score: 2530
Min FPS: 26.7
Max FPS: 216.2

UserBenchmark results:
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/8486563

Furmark v1.9.0:
(1280x720 Fullscreen, Dynamic Background, 8X MSAA.)
Min: 57
Max: 92
Avg: 61
(1366x768 Fullscreen, Dynamic Background, 8X MSAA.)
Min: 53
Max: 85
Avg: 59

Passmark's BurnInTest was left running for two hours and didn't return any errors
Prime95 was left to run in "Blend" for two hours and didn't return any errors

Passmark's PerformanceTest results:
Passmark Rating: 2701.2 (62nd percentile)
CPU Mark: 7616.8 (64th percentile)
2D Graphics Mark: 706.6 (70th percentile)
3D Graphics Mark: 9119.7 (92nd percentile)
Memory Mark: 1605.9 (51st percentile)
Disk Mark: 885.6 (42nd percentile)

Passmark is interesting because it lets me compare my Hardware to other people with the same hardware.
With this in mind, my CPU scores way below average for this model on every test.
My GPU scores are slightly below average
HDD also below average
RAM is exceptionally and critically below average.

So this is what the tests say, now for my personal experience, the computer feels like it lacks performance in almost everything, especially games, games that i could comfortably run with my 10 year old computer are now giving me problems.

Answering your questions, i wouldn't complain about the GPU performance, it doesn't seem to be bad, GPU intensive areas in games are not as bad as CPU intensive areas, and in games like CSGO it doesn't even matter if i try to run it on very low or very high, i get the same performance out of the graphics card, tests also point to it being ok. Witcher 3 which is very heavy on the GPU doesn't have any stuttering or anything, no problems in the wilderness despite the low FPS count, except when i go to CPU heavy areas like Novigrad and the game begins to crash even.

The games are being played on Steam, yes.
 

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phillpower2

PCHF Moderator
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Support Team
Sep 9, 2016
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#13
Steam info acknowledged but for better checking your FPS when not gaming online and therefore not reliant on a solid internet connection you should check your GPU with Valley and not Heaven, free download from here

Already mentioned the present RAM as a limiting factor but some info for you here
 

chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
20
1
21
#14
Here you go: Uningine Valley results.

Unigine Valley
FPS: 82.7
Score: 3462
Min FPS: 21.0
Max FPS: 128.2

Settings
Render: Direct3D11
Mode: 1366x768 8xAA fullscreen
Preset: Custom
Quality: Ultra

Also, about the RAM thing, when i bought this memory i read that Ryzen supported UP TO 2666MHz, so i assumed that was the max and that 2400MHz would be fine, was i wrong in thinking this? Does it support memory with speeds below or over 2666MHz, i don't think that's clear to me now.

Also, i do realize i have a RAM problem, but i'm curious as to what it actually is (apart from the different sticks thing), i don't think i understand. Why is it underperforming, why is the latency so high?

Thank you.
 

phillpower2

PCHF Moderator
Moderator
Support Team
Sep 9, 2016
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#15
Looks ok to me, check the thread here any results better than yours seem to have a more powerful CPU ( Over clockable Intel K chips) and so should be expected.

For the best and most stable performance you should where possible purchase a CPU and RAM that have been tested and approved by the motherboard manufacturer, this is referred to as the QVL ( qualified vendors list ) understand though that there are too many products released for them all to be tested so other hardware will be compatible but not proven to be.

To get the most appropriate RAM you should have checked what AMD recommend here and then cross referenced on the MBs QVL memory support list what 2666MHz RAM had been tested and approved in the motherboard.

While the slower RAM will be lagging behind the CPU switching to the correct 2666MHz RAM will not suddenly make performance go sky high, what it will do is allow the CPU to use its full potential when gaming.
 

chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
20
1
21
#16
On the GPU thing, shouldn't i be getting better FPS? Keep in mind i'm running the benchmark (and gaming) in 1366x768, and not 1920x1080 like everyone on that thread.

About the RAM, i did check and i saw "2666MHz max" so i assumed 2666MHz was the maximum amount of memory that this Processor supported, not the minimum, this is why i bought 2400MHz... I could've gotten 3000MHz for a 10% difference in price... i still don't get it.

I checked the list and my memory is indeed not compatible, but is it related to clock speed at all? I see there are a lot of 2133 models there, all the way up to 3000.

Also, is there still a reason to blame the CPU? Considering the information i provided about it but also what was revealed about the RAM.
 

phillpower2

PCHF Moderator
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Sep 9, 2016
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#17
The slower RAM will be bottlenecking the processor which in turn will affect the performance of the GPU.

About the RAM, i did check and i saw "2666MHz max"
Where did you see this, it is misinformation, AMD who`s advice is what matters state 2667MHz and nothing else, no chance of any confusion on their behalf.

Also, is there still a reason to blame the CPU?
Who has blamed the CPU and for what, only thing that I have seen regarding the CPU is that Speccy says that it is not running at 3200MHz and that can sometimes happen when the processor is not under any load.
 

chrysstreet

PCHF Member
PCHF Member
Mar 2, 2018
20
1
21
#19
I guess i'll have to wait then, RAM is way too expensive right now, i'll roll with what i have and swap for a 3000MHz or a 3200MhZ when i get the chance.

Where did you see this, it is misinformation, AMD who`s advice is what matters state 2667MHz and nothing else, no chance of any confusion on their behalf.
I checked here on AMD's specifications for this processor, it says "Max System Memory Speed: 2667MHz" so i assumed that meant that it couldn't handle speeds above 2667MHz, but anything under it would be fine

Who has blamed the CPU and for what, only thing that I have seen regarding the CPU is that Speccy says that it is not running at 3200MHz and that can sometimes happen when the processor is not under any load.
I did, i just thought it was weird that it came out of the box with speeds that made it crash and that i had to manually underclock it myself, and that it gave bad performance in CSGO, but that was just me speculating.

Well, thanks for the help, i guess it'll stay this way until RAM prices drop, at least i know my GPU is fine, that's the one thing i was afraid of since it's so expensive.

Also, while i'm at it, can my motherboard handle a CPU upgrade? If this one is indeed running as it should, then it is a disappointment for me, i was thinking of swapping for a Ryzen 5 1600x or a Ryzen 5 2600x when i fix the RAM issue.
 

phillpower2

PCHF Moderator
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Support Team
Sep 9, 2016
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#20
Apologies for the late reply, had my own disaster to take care, someone driving into the side of my car to be exact :(

Question for you, has the BIOS ever been changed from what it was when you purchased the MB?

Will come back to answering the other points once we know the answer to the above.
 
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